Zoom function?

[AtomicJ]

Zoom function?

So in the first D3 gameplay vid (the long one narrated by Jay Wilson), the screen zooms in and out on the characters several times. Will this zoom function be implemented in the game, or was it simply for the benefit of the development vid? Sorry if this has been answered already.

 

[Romak]

Re: Zoom function?

Actually... back in BlizzCon 2008, during the live chat that has been held here, I asked that question. According to the answer I got, there was no option like that in the demo. So yeah... I'm still wondering, but my sense tells me that there will not be an option to zoom in. If you look at specific locations during the gameplay video and the demo, you'll notice that not the entire environment is in 3D, for example the trees... or the well from the girl-ghost quest. They seem like sprites. I think Blizzard are going to take advantage on the fact that we always see the game from the same perspective, and make 2 dimensional trees and backgrounds - therefore make the game preform better with less objects on the screen. But just like in Diablo 2, this is only possible if you see everything always from the same point of view. If you'd zoom in, you'll notice the 2 dimensional objects and the illusion will fail. So I think that the zoom thingie was simply for trailer demo demonstrations.

 

[Grawner]

Re: Zoom function?

i hope they make such developement, just before i tried zooming in DII, but remembered that it has no such function.

 

[kavlor]

Re: Zoom function?

Why would they need to make 2d objects when computers are more than fast enough to render full 3d objects 5 years ago,I mean really that is very primitive method now more than likely 2d objects are just placeholders.I think theres a good chance zoom will be there as its pretty much standard even PSP titles have it and besides look at the detail of the character models,how are you going to see that detail if always zoomed out.

 

[Demetrium]

Re: Zoom function?

I'm hoping zoom is a feature as well. Something close to the zoom feature in WarCraft3 would be fine.

Why would they need to make 2d objects when computers are more than fast enough to render full 3d objects 5 years ago,I mean really that is very primitive method now more than likely 2d objects are just placeholders.I think theres a good chance zoom will be there as its pretty much standard even PSP titles have it and besides look at the detail of the character models,how are you going to see that detail if always zoomed out.

I don't think sprites/2d objects are always a bad thing. Someone with graphic design knowledge could confirm, but I do think 3d sprites exist. Check out this picture below. The orbs on the shoulders do appear to have a third dimension, but the flicker inside the orb always has the same perspective regardless of your relationship to them.

 

[Romak]

Re: Zoom function?

Check out this picture below. The orbs on the shoulders do appear to have a third dimension, but the flicker inside the orb always has the same perspective regardless of your relationship to them.

Yep, I don't know the professional term, but that type of 2D sprites exist in almost every 3D game nowadays. Usually used to create objects that look the same no matter from which side you look at them (marbles, candle lights...). The sprite will follow the camera, always facing towards it. However, this is not the case here. Were talking about trees and complex object that are not effected by the players' actions and physics (destroyed or moved), so there is no reason to build them in 3D other than the "zoom in" option which doesn't only show the picture from closer range, but also lowers the camera close to 90 degrees. The only problem with this is lighting... it's almost impossible to make the sprites blend in when there are different possible lightings. That's why I too really hope they are place holders...

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Zoom function?

meh. I could go without a zoom.

Great pic post demetrium. It isnt something that should take away from the game.

Also, Blizz is pretty good at making sure even low end comps can play and enjoy the game. no need to make it only playable on higher end comps...although the change might not require a high end comp, I am not totally educated in the graphic design stuff

 

[Krugar]

Re: Zoom function?

Why would they need to make 2d objects when computers are more than fast enough to render full 3d objects 5 years ago

The less 3D objects are present, the less the polygon count and the faster the scene is rendered. Imagine a 2D Sprite as a texture that doesn't need a 3D model.

...

As for Zoom, I'll be happy both ways. With or without.

EDIT: Mind you, about any 3D game uses sprites exactly because of economy of resources. The most common method is called billboarding. And this is simply the use of a 2D sprite affixed to a plane that always faces the player. But contrary to what you may think, sprites in 3D can be much more than just a simple 2D image. Well, they are. But they can be animated, or be composed of a 3D scene now fully rendered and displayed on a 2D Plane, or can be drawn to give the illusion of 3D. Since they are usually used in very small objects (like the leaves of a tree), are placed out of players reach (like a background scenery), or are complex animations (like a campfire), and because they merge into the rest of the 3D scene, they are in fact hard to spot with an untrained eye. And as such the player is given the illusion of a full 3D scene, when in fact, a good lot of it isn't. Valve's Source engine or BioWare's Aurora engine make heavy use of sprites.

 

[CaptainDingo]

Re: Zoom function?

You've done it now, Demetrium.

Cue the WoWophobes flooding in and going "DIABLO 3 AND WOW BOTH USE 2D SPRITES! DIABLO 3 IS A WOW CLONE!"

 

[CaptainDingo]

Re: Zoom function?

The most common method is called billboarding.

This method was common years ago (in practically every FPS from Wolfenstein to Duke, though I admit WoW used it in that shot, that's an extremely rare occurrence), but isn't anymore. Nowadays what is typically done is either static sprites that do not continually face the player (forests far in the backdrop), or, as per shrubs and other small forms of vegetation, they are two or more flat sprites "crossroaded" on top of each other. But the last time billboarding was seriously used was back in the Super Mario 64 era, around the time when it started phasing out in favor of multiple crossroaded sprites that more accurately convey volume without making the player feel like he's being watched by a potted plant.

Otherwise, I obviously agree with the rest of the post.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Zoom function?

This method was common years ago (in practically every FPS from Wolfenstein to Duke), but isn't anymore.

No. It is still common and is also one of the most used methods. I'm not going to argue this. If you realy want to believe it isn't seriously used since Mario 64, I'm not the one who is going to try and convince you otherwise. There's plenty of research material out there for you to take a look.

 

[CaptainDingo]

Re: Zoom function?

Good plan, save yourself the humiliation.

I'd like to see screenshots of games where always-camera-facing sprites are still used though, aside from that one instance in WoW. Because I still doubt you'd be able to produce many, if any.

Because honestly? The "Just trust that I'm right because I think I know more than you so don't bother debating me" thing doesn't cut it with me. Rhetoric isn't proof. Maybe with other people, but I've got enough gaming under my belt, and knowledge of exactly what I'm seeing, to say billboarding doesn't happen anymore. 99% of all sprites used these days are static, save for particle effects which must be billboarded because volumetric smoke and fire isn't feasible.

World objects are no longer billboarded in this day in age. And I'd be endlessly amused if you tried to argue otherwise.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Zoom function?

Good plan, save yourself the humiliation.

1. http://adlcommunity.net/file.php/36/GrooveFiles/Games Madison/charAnimation.pdf
(page 4, What the Future Holds for Us)

2. http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=34
(Under Special effects)

3. http://www.ogre3d.org/2002/03/27/billboarding-support
(no comment)

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_(computer_graphics)#Move_to_3D
(no comment, but it even tells you of a recent game.)

5. ad nausea

World objects are no longer billboarded in this day in age. And I'd be endlessly amused if you tried to argue otherwise.

I just did. And now that you know, I suggest you be quiet.

EDIT (because I feel you deserve a second chance): For your future information, I do not speak of which I do not know. And I do tend to spare anyone of the humiliation I just gave you unless they become offensive, as you did. If instead you acknowledged your ignorance -- because ignorance is not a bad thing -- I'd be happy to explain it saving you this post.

I'm a software developer by profession and dabble too in 3D programming as a programmer (not artist). I suggest you get Pro OGRE 3D Programming (it's a free lengthy preview) and take a look at chapter 10. It will teach you everything you need to know about billboarding, why you need it, and where to use it. The techniques are not much different between 3D engines.