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ZOMG, I found a Zod.

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by jantia, Aug 28, 2006.

  1. jantia

    jantia Banned

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    ZOMG, I found a Zod.

    Ok.

    Guys, I saw in the SPTF all these reactiosn to CoS's banning. Before, usually people got banned before they had too big of an effect on the item pool of the SPF. However, CoS being such a big trader, many of you are reeling in the effects of the trades.

    Look, the SPF works solely on trust. And in this world of people who are inherently greedy, this is bound to cause some problems sometimes. It is incredibly easy to hack, trade and post atma readouts in this community without ever being caught. As long as a hacker doesn't make a blatant mistake, he/she will never be caught.

    That being said, I don't think people join the SPF with the intention of ever hacking. However, some are not as wealthy as existing members, and seeing "high rune" finds in the item find thread, are enough to tempt many a person. I mean honestly, over the past few months, I have seen so many people "claim" to have found high runes. I am not saying these people are cheating, or hackors, because Diablo II is like that. Its all about luck.

    I have been tempted once or twice, when I've seen a few people finding Lo's or Surs, for I too, would gladly like to get these runes. For a moment or two, I would think "what if I were to just to dupe a rune, and fake a screenshot". Then I would be a Lo richer, and nobody the poorer.That being said, I alsothought; if I could jsut duplicate and find Lo's that would mean if I ever really found a Lo, it wouldn't really be as great as if I knew I had "legitimately" found the runes. I knew that if I duped a Vex, I would not have felt as happy when I actually have fun. You're cheating yourself of the game if you do. I then go back to hellforge rushing :grin:

    What I"m saying is, in the SPF, you have to accept that there are amongst us, a given amount of cheaters. Even the greatest optimist must acknowledge that when it is so easy to cheat and so hard to be caught, there will be those who indulge themselves.

    How do you avoid getting tainted then?

    This is how I do it; I read the itemfind thread/trade threads and I create a mental list of people who's finds I view as suspicious. I would never make an accusation on the legitimacy of these items. But what I now do do is that I try to avoid trading/mping with people who I feel maybe illegitimate.

    I also try to avoid trading for items that will go on Mfers/PvMers. Most of my items these days that I trade for are items for my PvPers. Of course, for those who only PvM this isn't very helpful, but really, for PvM, there are very few items that don't have substitutes, so there is no real need for greatly active trading. For PvP characters, they will not find many items and I would be willing to remake them if I needed.

    I also only trade over the forums unless I know the person in real life (AKA I can go to his house and give him a few whacks if he hacked and traded with me).

    I really don't care if you hack/dupe if you don't MP/Trade. For example DC: I"m not saying he does at all (I've defended him in another thread), but when I see him reroll all those high vitality skillers/find that cham; I thought for a second; "he hacks". However, after a few more seconds passed, I realized that if he does play that much, those finds are very achievable (thinks back to the MFO), and then after that I thought; Who the hell cares? If its all fake, so he got some "e-praise" for what he knows is a "false accomplishment".

    I have traded a few items with CoS in the past, and I've located them both (a 39ed jewel that had not yet been socketed and a homunculus I have not used yet (I thought I lost my old one but retrieved it shortly after the trade)) and deleted both of them. That being said, I believe that CoS's previous items were all legit. After all, he did not boast considerable wealth or anything like that. Also, his "fake find" was rather clumsily done with a readout of a 1.07-9 item, making it seeming like it was the first time he tried to do it (gave into the temptation of finding one because so many others have found high runes recently). That being said, to be sure, I have deleted the items I have recieved in a trade, but feel that the Mods should give people the option to not delete items "tainted" buy CoS's items.

    Finally, This is a long thread, but I hope some of you take the time to read it. It may not be my place to say all that I said, as I am not entirely the "most legit" poster on this forum (as in most definitely not a hacker), but these are my views, and with all these post all over the place, I felt it would be better if there was a thread for it.

    Edit: Removed two paragraphs as they included some thoughts on "groups of people" I felt suspicious of which on second thought is not really helpful.

    Also, as Salvo still has a bunch of items to giveaway, I"ll try to refurbish items lost through his stashes if the recipients are up for it.
     
  2. Unrsrvd

    Unrsrvd IncGamers Member

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    What really boggles me is WHY people want to dupe or hack, or would even be tempted to do that.

    I mean, I'm all for having everyone play the game the way they want (as long as they're honest about it!), but I just don't understand it. For me, there's nothing more fun than finding a cool item I didn't except, or one that I needed for a character to use. Cheating to get these items would completely destroy the fun in D2.

    I'm playing 100% self-found, so things like this don't really affect me in any way, other than making me wonder "why". :undecided:
     
  3. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    Very good writing janita.
    With that said, I might share some of my thoughs;
    In my opinion the thing is that I would never excpect someone like CoS to be a hacker, I've seen him hanging around, and he has also been very nice and offered much help and also, item through giveaway.
    You want to trust everyone, but the sad part is that you cannot.
    As for me I believe CoS was just another legit guy who wanted the warmth and knowledge from this great forums, but got too tempted and fell into the cheatertrap.

    And on the note on hacking=not really finding stuff yourself;
    I do admit that I tries out a hero editor in my early d2 days (Do not worry, I assure you that was before I reinstalled my pc, and I did not keep anything, If I would've kept anything, do you think I would be so poor then? ;) Seeing most of my highend items comes from giveaways/nice trades/the chicken run ^^) and I must say that cheating yourself to a high level amazon and get like something similar to botd hydrabow, enigma, bla bla uberstuff, was the most boring I have ever done, I played it for an hour, and then I stopped playing diablo 2 for almost 6 months, the after I 100% reinstalled my computer due to some virus problems, I picked up d2 again, and man is it funner the clean road.
    As usual I appologise for my very messy post :)
    And I hope this incident will give people a 3rd though before they try to do something similar to CoS.

    edit: and about the self found feeling > hack feeling;
    The feeling of finding something yourself really gives the feeling of accomplishment, and there is no better feeling in this game (except maybe to kill diablo for the first time).
    I still rememer my joy when I found my first arctic armor in the den =) I jumped 8 feet into the air.
     
  4. druidkid9

    druidkid9 IncGamers Member

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    nice thread but the title says Zomg, i found a Zod......WELL WHERE IS IT??
     
  5. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    :grin:

    :hide:
     
  6. Tensaiga

    Tensaiga IncGamers Member

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    I am obviously quite new to this forum, so please, take my words with a grain of salt, but I mind as well throw out my 2 cents on this issue;

    The true demon here is not nescisarily greed. I believe that it is more intolerance. Hear me out here. Cheating is not a despicable act in of itself. Many people knew CoS as well as they could, and he seemed to be a decent enough guy. He never bragged about what he had, he gave away items, and he never really seemed like a shady character. Hell, is probably a real good guy in real life, if not in general. Cheating does not make him som sort of demon to be hated and feared, all it does is enhance his own personal experience at the cost of...well, that is entire up to the cheater. You can very well say fun, but who wouldn't have fun running around in elite uniques and high rune runewords? Hell, that sounds fun to me, at least for a while. Regardless, there is no victim just in cheating.

    The issue becomes, he hurt a LOT of people by his actions. And I don't mean cheating. I mean not telling people he cheated. When you cheat and don't spread it around, you are only affecting yourself and leaving those who dislike cheating to their own business. But he traded his items like they weren't ill-gotten (Wether they were or not is moot, although I agree that most probably weren't...), he hurt people who did not want to be a part of his cheating. Certain people only had to delete a few items, but there is more than one person who has had MAJOR losses, of hours and hours and HOURS of their life, all because of his che...no, because he did not tell anyone he cheated.

    And who could blame him for that either? The SPF here is one of the last large bastions of vanilla D2 single player fans. The overwhelming majority of people here play with either no mods or inconsequential mods (RRM/RWM) and it leaves a sour taste to them to hear of any cheating. This is also perfectly understandable as while all of them obviously have the internet, we have also all chosen single player over realms for various reasons, a large part being all the hacking on the realms. If he had ever mentioned that he downloaded items or used a drop mod or anything, he would've been banned on the spot (If I am familiar with my forum rules...), regardless of if he had said "I won't trade with anyone since I do not want to contaminate them" or something of the ilk.

    Yet I still can't help thinking...is this just not a case where a good person made a small mistake? The world is filled with good people who have made poor choices...should we turn our heads and raise our noses to them, and declare that they deserve our scorn?

    Don't get me wrong here, I am not saying that this should be some anarchy of cheaters, lord knows there are enough forums out there on the internet that deal with single-player and open hacking on Diablo 2. Nor am I asking for anything so much as that people are more...understanding of these people. CoS WASN'T a malicious player and he most likely didn't want to hurt anyone at all, hell, he gave a way lots of lowish uniques! So don't hate these people.

    Er...yeah...4 am. This is not the best time to be making a point, much less to be so presumptious as to call a lot of people pretentious with...what, 16 posts now? Please don't hurt me! ^^;
     
  7. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Just to clarify: We don't ban people for using hacks/duped/editors if they do not trade, MP or give away items. (As long as they aren't pimping the hacks.)
     
  8. Ezeran

    Ezeran IncGamers Member

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    I personally, recieved 4 items from CoS, and using those items, I played alot in the one day I had them, built up my unique stash a nice bit, and found a duriels shell and a 3 socketed Superior Dimensional blade, an a nice yellow jewel. I have since deleted the items he gave me, and with much annoyance the duriels shell, (I've since been offered a replacement, if the person who is replacing wants to be mentioned just say, but Thanks!) but even though I've fairly cleaned up my character (obviously apart from the XP), I've decided to use this as an excuse to reroll my barb and fix the skill points issues he had, Like 6 levels in leap, and 1 point in WW.

    My question here is whats the forums view on backing up characters? For example say I trade or gain items though a giveaway, I would create a back up of my character just before I gave him the items, if it comes out someone I trade with hacks/dupe/whatever, I delete the newer one and revert to the back up. Stashes wouldn't be backed up, I'd just have 2, a pre item one and a post item one.

    Alternativly on that to avoid cries of foul play, I could back up the character, but strip the back up of all items, apart from those replaced by trade, and as the non back up replaces the items, I give them back to the back up, this was avoids, accidental duping, or foul play.
     
  9. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    If we have to delete stuff we found while using stuff we got from CoS I might be in a tight situation, I think I recieved some items a time ago and I think it was a useful one, and hence it prolly has been used, damn do I have to restart cuz someone else's hacked :(?
     
  10. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    This is why I tried to start the BTIF a long time ago, but there wasn't much animo. People are ofcourse still welcome to take me up on the offer. Just look in my thread starting history.
    On the thread subject, yeah I didn't suspect CoS for anything too and it seemed indeed clumsily done.
     
  11. colony

    colony IncGamers Member

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    Very nice post Jantia:thumbsup:

    There's a lot of things there that have needed saying for a while now, especially the part about trying to get an idea of who you can and can't trust.

    Well even HF rushing takes away some of the "Z0MG I found t3h HR" feeling, but it is nice when you've finished and knowing that it took a lot of time to get.
     
  12. herobomberman

    herobomberman IncGamers Member

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    its all well and good to say he is not a bad person. but to me, he is an inconsiderate w**k*r. he did NOT think this thru, and even if he was legit up to the Lo, he shouldve known what he did would wreck everything b4.

    lucky for me, i dont trade. but if that guy had afffected me in a way that would cause me to lose some of my recent items, id be so damn mad. i would... grrr..

    i play this game for fun, and so do *most* of you im sure, when soemthing like this happens, it ruins the fun, and *wastes* alot, and i mean ALOT of some ppls time.

    i don't care if you hack, but the moment you do, i expect you to disappear from here. This is a "SINGLE PLAYER" forum, for single players.. using dupes and trainers etc, is not single playing, its playing with mumsy holding your hand.

    .... in other news gib z0d??1122 :p
     
  13. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    The solution is "simple", self found, no MP :rolleyes:

    Ok, I was half kidding. The safe way to be "taint free" while still having fun for MP/Trade is to create complete separate char/stash. The one you grail/etc, never ever come cross to MP/Trade. The only you MP, stay by its own. Same for Trade. So, anything happens, the worst is losing a small part rather the whole.
     
  14. Cormallon

    Cormallon IncGamers Member

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    Well, Jantia, I had the same question / problem when I came to this forum (OMG, 2 years ago? Bummer), due to similar incidents. And then there was that big FBob incident (I still think Bob deliberately disclosed is 'hack' to get away from D2 addiction, though).

    This topic comes up every now and then. My solution from these early days is playing self-found. Sadly, this is the only possibility how I can be sure nobody will spoil my chars and item pool. I don't have enough time to rebuild one or more of my characters, and to recollect my item stash. If something severe would happen to these, I would stop playing D2.

    Every few months, I think I'm missing some fun by staying away from trades / MP games, and the situation concerning hacks / dupes has been cleared. But then something like this happens... and I feel bad both because of the losses people have here as well as because of my loss (not being able to join trades and MP). It's sad, but such is life and this is the price I have to pay.

    It would be better if after discovering such hacks and trades, we wouldn't have to delete characters and stashes because of taints. We are victims, we did nothing wrong. The person hacking gets banned, ok ... but deleting lots of stuff to keep legit in the spirit of the SPF sometimes sounds like a much harder punishment than just a ban.
     
  15. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Trust me to pick out the most philosophical post in this thread... suffice to say, I am in total agreement with you. We all make mistakes. Regardless of who gets affected, people make mistakes. There are no winners here. The perpetrator, as well as the victims, suffer.

    So, let us not judge others (for we have no right to do so), lest we in turn be judged. I am in no way religious, but that line is apt. And believe me, being judged by others is not at all pleasant, especially when you have your side of the story, and have not been afforded the opportunity to voice it.

    Yes, that's a good practice. I see no problem with that. Of course, your stashes will still need to be purged, but your char can be 'restored' to the 'untainted' state. The only other problem is that you'll have to remember what items were found by the 'tainted' char that were transferred into your stashes. That could be a problem if lots of items were stashed this way.
     
  16. Ezeran

    Ezeran IncGamers Member

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    I just rerolled my barb right and I have one stash, my purged unique/set item stash (I may actually have gone overboard and purged a few items that where fine, but better safe than sorry) now say someone gives me 2 axe's, with these axes I'll back up my character before using them, then, I say go do a meph run with the axes, meph drops 2 uniques, these uniques go in a new unique stash leaving my old one free of taint if the person turns out to be a hacker. And if person is a hacker, I just delete the newer stash. If person is fine then I don't delete the stash, but if I get a new item from someone else then I make a new stash, so I end up with a stash for every person I trade with +1 which is my untraded self found one.

    Currently I only have one stash, and as I can't remember what I found after you gave me weapons, it's the frostburn stash now. And until my new my new barb is high enough level to use the items you gave me, they'll go into a different stash, his self found untraded one. Yes I'm bad for rambling, but I'll all straight in my head, I might make a thread about it, with it explained properly, if people want to use it. Just out of interest though, what do I need to do exactly to back up my character?
     
  17. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Geez, that was hard to follow. :laugh: I say, the gist of it is that you have a stash(es) that are for self-found purposes only. Nothing from trade or MP goes in there. I myself go even more extreme with my recent involvement in MP; I mule my items on to a MP char, but that MP char is barred from muling off. In other words, any items muled/found stays on that MP char, and is considered off-limits (or lost) to my self-found stashes.

    When it comes to trading, it could be troublesome if you maintain individual stashes for each person you trade with. But that is the most fool-proof method to maintain your status. The alternative is to trade with only the people you are almost certain are trust-worthy, and those that are new/under probation, you keep a separate stash.

    To back-up old chars, alter the appropriate .org file to .d2s. For example, change xxxKillerxxx_1.org to xxxKillerxxx.d2s. Remember to delete the current .d2s file first before you make that change.
     
  18. Skinny

    Skinny Banned

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    The thing I always wondered is why people who hack trade. Isn't it easier to just hack the item you're about to trade for?:scratch:
     
  19. Ezeran

    Ezeran IncGamers Member

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    It's not so much a stash for each person, more for each trade.

    So I start a character, have first stash, then I get a sword. So I make a new stash

    So I have stash 1 and stash 2, then I get a belt from player 2.

    Now I have stash 1, stash 2 and stash 3, anything I get now goes into stash 3, now player 2 gets found to hack, thus I delete stash three and revert to stash 2.

    Now if say player 1 gets found to hack, I'd delete the character and the stash 2 and 3 and revert to stash 1, but would take the item that I recieved from player 2, as it wasn't gained though tainted means, but everything else goes. I'd do the same with runes and gems, but in a different stash. (Mainly for neatness.
     
  20. RedArchon

    RedArchon IncGamers Member

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    What concerns me is the fact that even though I've been around here for a decent length of time now, I'm still pretty new and not many people know me yet. This combined with the reluctance of people to trade now because of CoS's decisions is going to make it even harder for the newbie traders.

    I guess I'll just hope my tons of Pindle runs pay off and I get the things I need myself. :undecided:
     

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