Zealot, help me duel WW barb

dkay

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
there is just no way for a zealot to beat a dedicate ww barb. ww is the strongest melee skill in the game, and barb has high life, good def, and good dmg.
well... zealers have higher def and damage than a barb.. but the mechanics of whirlwind is too strong... and barbs can afford to make mistakes due to thier ridiculous life.. other chars cant afford that mistake. ><
 

Bigrob

Banned
dkay said:
well... zealers have higher def and damage than a barb.. but the mechanics of whirlwind is too strong... and barbs can afford to make mistakes due to thier ridiculous life.. other chars cant afford that mistake. ><
so ur point is.....

my point is ww barb > zealot, period.

maybe my 9k(with cta) mana es/fb sorc can kill ww barb.
 

dkay

Diabloii.Net Member
my point is that a barb prolly wont 10-0 a zealer. zealers do have some good aspects about them that gives them a chance against barbs. but in the end, barbs will come out on top. i was responding to your saying that zealers will never beat a dedicated barb.
 

Bigrob

Banned
dkay said:
my point is that a barb prolly wont 10-0 a zealer. zealers do have some good aspects about them that gives them a chance against barbs. but in the end, barbs will come out on top. i was responding to your saying that zealers will never beat a dedicated barb.
10-1 gg, is the same thing. :lol:
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
I dunno. It depends. a *good* whirler can make a zealots life hell, tis true. but if its a bvc whirler and the weapon is grief, they had better have their coa on for sure, because a range 3 grief zerker can take 6k life and turn it into 0 life in a hurry. as far as bvb whirlers with the massive defense, max block, adn good ar, no, I don't see those being an easy duel. Much much harder. and leap isnt' all that useful vs. a zealot. zeal is very uninterruptible, although vs. an unprepared one it might give you a temporary advantage. if there are any good whirlers on useast ladder, I might like to duel one.

--welt
 

lCE

Diabloii.Net Member
xpumafangx said:
Ya dkay thats all they can really do. Also if they do not have teleport You can just charge really far away and use widowmaker on them.

Also I too know the power of leap and I havent dueled a barb using it yet. So I can not talk about leap using barbs vers a zealot.

My barb has easyly killed zealots that use 50k def as well. I know I used shout on them my self so they could have 50k. I would like to see a 100k def zealot tho.
I doubt theres a really big difference in chance to hit a 50k char vs a 100k def char, def really goes through diminishing returns at high numbers like those.
 

Darknicrofia

Diabloii.Net Member
TheStarKnight said:
i dont kno wut u are alls aying bout ww better than zealot... i usually always own ww barbs. and i have incredibly bad stuff on my zealot pally. once in awhile theres a barb with like 1023948487530948 life and he beats me but thats not often. and agasint most the other classes i just use charge and almost always win and my charge is only lvl 1, but its at lvl 10 cuz of eqiup. my stats are max fanat, max zeal, max holy shield, and max sacrafice.

you must have dueld horrible ww barbs, what realm are u on, i would gladly point out some of the top bvc barbs on your realm
 

sizgar

Diabloii.Net Member
well i still think (thats what i expierenced) well skilled zealot + nice amount of DS (eg 20 grief 15 guilliamus 15 gore + angelics combo / 2 raven LORDs 3x )can put any ww baba in trouble. unless u follow wwing baba = kamikaze

regs
 

skilledlord

Diabloii.Net Member
Weltkriegpally said:
I dunno. It depends. a *good* whirler can make a zealots life hell, tis true. but if its a bvc whirler and the weapon is grief, they had better have their coa on for sure, because a range 3 grief zerker can take 6k life and turn it into 0 life in a hurry. as far as bvb whirlers with the massive defense, max block, adn good ar, no, I don't see those being an easy duel. Much much harder. and leap isnt' all that useful vs. a zealot. zeal is very uninterruptible, although vs. an unprepared one it might give you a temporary advantage. if there are any good whirlers on useast ladder, I might like to duel one.

--welt
Y would a bvc even be dueling melee, they have no block it'll be suicide.
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
skilledlord said:
Y would a bvc even be dueling melee, they have no block it'll be suicide.
the "godly" ones like blobs and mcm claim its not a big deal to have block or even much ar, just massive life and proper tactics. I suppose it might work vs. smite, but I don't think it would be smart vs. a zealot with range 3 and built properly.

--welt
 

Darknicrofia

Diabloii.Net Member
Weltkriegpally said:
the "godly" ones like blobs and mcm claim its not a big deal to have block or even much ar, just massive life and proper tactics. I suppose it might work vs. smite, but I don't think it would be smart vs. a zealot with range 3 and built properly.

--welt

once you've master'ed triangle whirls, you can go into a duel game where the zealots use p eth dc and 2 skill eth glitched valor and they wont even HIT you before they die, all a matter of skill, I still suck at triangle whirls and most zealots cant even touch me, cept for the few top ones on the realm that have all hi end gear and have been playing for about 5 years
 

dkay

Diabloii.Net Member
Weltkriegpally said:
the "godly" ones like blobs and mcm claim its not a big deal to have block or even much ar, just massive life and proper tactics. I suppose it might work vs. smite, but I don't think it would be smart vs. a zealot with range 3 and built properly.

--welt
triangle whirls make it so that the whirlwind hits you but regular attackers dont. i never quite perfected it but i got up to the point where cs zons would never touch me...ever..

and i sense some sarcasm in your last post welt. but for your info.. i dont know about mcm but blobs lost against his share of zealers. like its been said.. zealers can win, but just not the majority of duels. he beat eth glitched zealers all the time, this is without angelics or hsarus.

drac are you west? what is your sn and barbs name? im curious because i dont think ive ever seen you around.
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
dkay said:
triangle whirls make it so that the whirlwind hits you but regular attackers dont. i never quite perfected it but i got up to the point where cs zons would never touch me...ever..

and i sense some sarcasm in your last post welt. but for your info.. i dont know about mcm but blobs lost against his share of zealers. like its been said.. zealers can win, but just not the majority of duels. he beat eth glitched zealers all the time, this is without angelics or hsarus.

drac are you west? what is your sn and barbs name? im curious because i dont think ive ever seen you around.
I agree that barbs are a good dueler, and again that they are highly skilled with whirlwind, even that the advantage is theirs in a duel, most of the time, but with a range 3 weapon (say grief zerker, its what mine uses), and some proper tactics (stepping into the ww to maximize hitting potential, for instance), it can be a very even duel. I just don't think that any one dueler is 100% godly 100% of the time, like I have seen some people argue in the appropriate/inappropriate forum. Now, the triangle whirling is effective against a standing target, but stepping in/out of a ww isn't that hard and a zealot is at least gonna swing at you, whether or not he hits you is another story (go go luck, as usual). As far as the eth glitched gear...well, defense isn't everything. If anyone wanted to do the calculations, there isn't that much difference between 50k defense and 25 to 30k defense for a chance to hit, but there is a HUGE difference in the amount of life you will have to have to use that gear. As far as ar goes, a dual wielding ww barb isn't that hard to hit, methinks. the bvb max block variety are a *much* bigger pain to duel, although they can be killed. I guess I am just trying to say that things are a lot more even than most people suggest, but barbs have a big advantage in areas of life and attack (damned ww, lol). Paladins advantage in this matchup is a very quick 5 swing attack (hey, it can make a huge difference in just how much damage you do) and that 2 frame block rate, which allows them to hit back ever so much faster (or take less hits)

--welt
 

Doll Call

Diabloii.Net Member
only very expierenced zealots have any chance against properly setup/played ww barbs. i beat 95% of most zealots with like 7k ar, and no shield... and usually i can handle more then one at a time too. fact of the matter is that with ww you have control... and the zealots fighting you dont. you make them play a certain way... and they're debilitated. if you want to beat ww barbs... make a bvb.
 

dkay

Diabloii.Net Member
I guess I am just trying to say that things are a lot more even than most people suggest, but barbs have a big advantage in areas of life and attack (damned ww, lol). Paladins advantage in this matchup is a very quick 5 swing attack (hey, it can make a huge difference in just how much damage you do) and that 2 frame block rate, which allows them to hit back ever so much faster (or take less hits)

yes whirlwind is definetely one of blizzards overpowered attack -.- but i think the BIGGEST factor is the life difference like you mentioned. things may change once greif and fort hits the tables.. but i guess well see.

personally.. im very biased against wwbabas simply because ive been around "good" ones all the time during my d2 career.. but also because i know that they can back what they say. of course if i was super rich enough to make a bvc barb.. i would actually do something "different" and make a pvc pally where ive only seen 1. (my friend silen has one.. its awesome)
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
dkay said:
yes whirlwind is definetely one of blizzards overpowered attack -.- but i think the BIGGEST factor is the life difference like you mentioned. things may change once greif and fort hits the tables.. but i guess well see.
thats for sure. I have a grief/fort zealot on ladder also using ss and a craptacular coa that I found. with 1.8k base life before bo (ok, so I could have made him better) and 30k defense, It takes him on average 3 hits to kill a 50 dr, 5k life bvc barb using the triangle whirl pattern (I have been dueling against ww a long time, so I do know how to defeat it, even though it is overpowered), and 3 to kill a 4.5k life bvb barb. BvBs are much tougher because of the shield, but they are by no means impossible to kill. They are also somewhat easier because of the same reason...the shield. They don't hit as hard and more importantly, as often. I wouldn't mind dueling any good ww barbs on ladder, to see what I have be missing as far as good duelers go. could be interesting.

--welt
 

Bigrob

Banned
once grief comes down to non-ladder wont be a much advantage for zealot against barb. Remember, barbs now will also be using grief, (grief + beast just doing too much dmg) which means they can potentionally doing around 6k-7k avg dmg per ww (before ds kicks in)

Most bvc barbs can hit more than just 5k life. 5.5-6.5k life after bo is regular life for a good bvc barbs. I know garb's barb can achieve 7k. O_O (and i believe he has max block)
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
once grief comes down to non-ladder wont be a much advantage for zealot against barb. Remember, barbs now will also be using grief, (grief + beast just doing too much dmg) which means they can potentionally doing around 6k-7k avg dmg per ww (before ds kicks in)

Most bvc barbs can hit more than just 5k life. 5.5-6.5k life after bo is regular life for a good bvc barbs. I know garb's barb can achieve 7k. O_O (and i believe he has max block)
I am well aware of how much life a non ladder bvc barb can get, since they have access to a multitude of duped charms. As far as grief +beast, nope, its really not that much damage. Thats what the bvcs I face are already using, and its not helping them much. But barbs have to give up some of their ar/ed to duel a zealot (think ber/ber coa) and even when they do, I still 2.5 shot ko them on my very craptacular zealot. so its still an advantage when used properly.

--welt
 
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