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Zapatero wants Spain out

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by snowieken, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. snowieken

    snowieken <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

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    Zapatero wants Spain out

    Full story

    Spain had enough. Zapatero, Aznar's successor as prime minister, says he plans to pull Spanish forces out of Iraq at least by June 30. He is not afraid to admit that the train assault is an important catalyst for this decision.

    Personally I have the utmost respect for this decision, and I am all for it. What do you think?
     
  2. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    no way, he let the terrorists dictate his policy, Spain is at their mercy from now on
     
  3. snowieken

    snowieken <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

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    I was already afraid someone was going to say that.

    No offense, Ash, but this is such an oversimplified view in my opinion. Please enlighten me, how is Spain at their mercy now? They might have done exactly what the terrorists wanted, but at least the chances of new assaults like that are possibly reduced to zero. If Al Quaida or another extremist organization was behind these assaults, you can be damn sure there will be other ones if the Spanish forces are not pulled back.

    Zapatero said he was going to put the fight against terror on the first place, but first he wants to reassure that nothing like this ever happens again. Sometimes it is not bad to indulge if that means your people are going to be left alone.

    Tell me again, how are they at the terrorists' mercy if they are going to be left alone in the future?
     
  4. Deathwing

    Deathwing Banned

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    If by "respect" you mean "loathing because now the terrorists have proof that bombing is the way to go", then sure, I respect him a whole lot!
     
  5. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    they compromised their soveriegnty and yielded to a foreign faction, it sets a bad precedent and is a victory for the Al Quaida that I would prefer not to see, they will be left alone because they will be too fearful to take any action against terrorism. Ignoring it because it's someone elses problem would surely work! it worked for the united states all these years, we haven't had to endure any major terrorist threats
     
  6. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    The U.S. wasn't attacked because it was ignoring other peoples' problems. It was attacked for its nosy and interfering foreign policy and its support of Israel.
     
  7. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    I should also add that the Al Quaida is not the only terrorist group in the world, yielding to them opens the door for other terrorist groups to attack Spain with renewed vigor
     
  8. snowieken

    snowieken <img src="http://forums.diabloii.net/images/pal.gi

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    Is it that hard to understand that they don't want new attacks and that they choose to pull back because of that? 90% of the Spanish population was already against sending troops over there, and these attacks were the last straw. In my opinion this is not simply a matter of "pulling back troops now would be a cave in against the terrorists", it is a country defending himself against further terrorist attacks. If one simple pullback is going to stop further attacks, they would be stupid not to do it. I frankly wouldn't care whether it is giving in or not. Call me cowardly all you like, but I am glad Belgium refused to send troops to Iraq.
     
  9. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    not sending troops in the first place is fine

    but the last thing I would want to see would be for my country to be bullied into sending troops by the US and then bullied into recalling them by the Al Quaida
     
  10. zelfmoordis

    zelfmoordis IncGamers Member

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    There you listed what is for me the only valid reason to pull those forces back.. The majority of Spain didn't want their military send their anyways! That is what I think is a good reason to pull those forces back, not those bombings..

    :wave:
     
  11. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    Well, except for the fact that one of the main planks in the platform of Spain's Socialist Party has always been to get Spainish troops out of Iraq.
     
  12. Sergeant

    Sergeant IncGamers Member

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    While I can't blame him for doing what he thinks is best for his nation, I can't help but think he is playing into the terrorists hands. This is what the terrorists want, it is the whole aim of their actions, to effect change in line with their ideological goals. They want to scare nations, governments and people into pulling support for this war.

    So, now the terrorists have confirmation from Spain that terrorism works on them and that Spain can be further manipulated if the terrorists so desire.

    I'm all for a government acting for the good of it's citizens but I don't think pulling out of the war and announcing it's mostly because of the terrorist attacks is the best way to go.
     
  13. Deathwing

    Deathwing Banned

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    snowieken, what are you thinking? To these people murder and death is a way of life. Do you really think that they are going to stop now that the thing they wanted to happen is going to happen? At "best", they'll plant their bombs in a different country and at worse they'll carry on bombing Spain, thinking they can exert more control over the government.
     
  14. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I'll try and explain this again, not that it'll matter.

    When the Spainish government first declared that ETA was responsible for the Madrid train bombings, the Popular Party (the one in power) was seen as a shoe-in for victory because of their tough stance against ETA. CBC article.

    After it came out that it might have been Islamic fundamental radicals behind the attacks, the people of Spain - again, the voters - backed the Socialist Party. Perhaps as backlash against poor handling of the initial investigation, perhaps because Spain's Socialist Party (PSOE) has stated that they do not want Spainish troops in Iraq and made it one of the planks in their platform

    To make the wild leap that Isalmic terrorists influenced any decisions of the new Spainish government is ludicrous at best, especially since the PSOE has been saying the same things all along.

    Don't blame the new government. If you want to assign blame, take a look at the Popular Party that sent troops to Iraq even though 90% of Spain's populace was against the invasion. Maybe you can blame the people of Spain for voting in those dirty Socialists.
     
  15. Nastie_Bowie

    Nastie_Bowie Banned

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    Is it hard to understand that succumbing to the terrorists, lets them win?

    Score 1 for Al-Queda, ya Spanish panzies!
     
  16. Deathwing

    Deathwing Banned

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    maccool, I'd rather blame those who killed over 200 people. Call me crazy.
     
  17. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    That wasn't my point nor the direction this thread is going, but thank you for restating the obvious. I'm sure that everyone blames the cats who blew up the train. We're discussing the repercussions and ramifications of the event, namely what the new Spainish government is doing.

    By the way, call me Mac. Or *******. Either way :buddies:
     
  18. dodomac

    dodomac IncGamers Member

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    What's the big deal? We have 6 billion more where that came from.
     
  19. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    Not really a good place to joke about this, dodo.

    I thought they made it clear in the article that they had been planning to remove the troops all along. Yeah, it makes it look like the terrorists won, and perhaps they did. But I think it's because they influenced the people to vote for a different leader, not because they influenced the leadership itself.
     
  20. Yaboosh

    Yaboosh IncGamers Member

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    mac, regardless of whether or not the terrorists are the catalyst for the decision, it sure as hell LOOKS like they were. Terrorists are going to take this "success" and feel confident that what they are doing is the "right thing". They now have a success story, in their minds anyway. Not a good thing for our safety OR our civil liberties in this country.
     

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