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Yet another tweak at the pretense for Iraq

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by IDupedInMyPants, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    Yet another tweak at the pretense for Iraq

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1184172,00.html

    "An Iraqi defector nicknamed Curveball who wrongly claimed that Saddam Hussein had mobile chemical weapons factories was last night at the centre of a bitter row between the CIA and Germany's intelligence agency.

    German officials said that they had warned American colleagues well before the Iraq war that Curveball's information was not credible - but the warning was ignored."

    "These 'killer caravans' allowed Saddam to produce anthrax 'on demand', it was claimed. US officials never had direct access to the defector(emphasis mine), and have subsequently claimed that the Germans misled them.

    Yesterday, however, German agents told Die Zeit newspaper that they had warned the Bush administration long before last year that there were 'problems' with Curveball's account. 'We gave a clear credibility assessment. On our side at least, there were no tricks before Colin Powell's presentation,' one source told the newspaper."

    So how do you feel about this? Can you trust an administration who will tell you they have information from "a solid source" that they never actually got to speak to? Do you still hold out hope that we'll find WMD, or even any biologicals? Is there any chance that, with the mounting evidence, anyone would ever admit to selling us, the American public, a lie to get us into the war?
     
  2. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    Dude, Germans by definition are foreingers. The paper is published in the U.K.; also a foreign nation. This Curveball fellow was foreign and brown and from that hinky place. Foreigners can't be trusted. Thus, it was OK to go to war. q.e.d.
     
  3. Dirty_Zulu

    Dirty_Zulu IncGamers Member

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    Still waiting for all those WMDs Bush claimed Saddam is gonna use on his neightbors.

    Maybe he exhausted his supply by using it on his own people.
     
  4. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    From your article, it appears that "Curveball" was the brother of Ahmed Chalabi.

    Chalabi is an Iraqi exile, notorious liar, and convicted felon. He and his associates passed off numerous lies about Iraq, Saddam, and their purported WMD. These fabrications were subsequently jumped on by the Neocon hawks at the Bush administration and used as a "source" for intelligence.

    Chalabi was paid handsomely for this information. He is US appointed member of the Iraqi governing council.

    A recent quote from Chalabi about the war and the failure to find WMD:

    http://washingtontimes.com/world/20040219-115614-3297r.htm

    Chalabi expects to gain financially and politically from our intervention, occupation, and reconstruction of Iraq.
     
  5. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    How about we take a peek over in Syria? Take a look at what that huge truck convoy took over there weeks before the bombs began to fall.
     
  6. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    You're going to have a brilliant career in the Republican party.
     
  7. MithrandirX

    MithrandirX IncGamers Member

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    You're going to have a brilliant career doing public relations for murdering dictators.

    Mith
     
  8. Dirty_Zulu

    Dirty_Zulu IncGamers Member

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    And then if we don't find any in Syria, I bet ppl are gonna say let's take a look at a country next to Syria.
     
  9. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    They're in Syria. I'd stake everything I have on it.
     
  10. eddy

    eddy Banned

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    They may very well be in Syria, but do they belong to the old Iraqi Government, or the Syrian government, or a terroist group?
     
  11. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Who cares? Saddam holdouts, the Syrian gov't or independant terrorists are all terrorists to begin with. They all deserve the same fate - death. I don't care how or where. Just so long as they die before they can kill innocent American civilians. Beyond that it doesn't matter.
     
  12. IDupedInMyPants

    IDupedInMyPants Banned

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    So Hussein, who himself refused to leave Iraq even long after Baghdad was taken, shipped his WMD out at the mere thought of us bombing, something we've been doing constantly for ten years? Give me a break. You're starting to sound like those crackpots that say Bush planned 9/11.
     
  13. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    This is a secondary consideration as far as I'm concerned.

    You know how all the Republican kool aid drinkers keep claiming the bad intelligence is the fault of the CIA or the FBI? It's a bunch of horse droppings. The Bush administration created the intelligence office responsible for cherry-picking and sexing up data for the express purpose of producing excuses for a war they'd already decided to wage. It's called the Office of Special Planning. It's a long article, but well worth the read.

    I'd stake everything I own on the assertion that the Easter Bunny exists. Prove me wrong.

    Actually, your argument is stupid because the Syrians have chemical and biological weapons of their own. In fact their whole national security strategy is built around chemical and biological weapons because past history has shown they can't defeat Israel in a stand-up conventional fight. What reason would they have to risk a U.S. invasion by accepting WMD from Saddam if they already have a bigger WMD capacity of their own?

    Your argument is nothing more than an empty fantasy created by backpedaling Republicans.

    That's a non-argument. If that was the reason we went to war with Iraq, why are we supporting the Saudis and Pakistan? Heck, Pakistan has WMD and has openly admitted to giving WMD technology to pretty much anyone who asked for it. They created, educated and trained the Taliban which was arguably worse than the Ba'athists. Why haven't we invaded them?

    Robert Mugabe has murdered more of his own people than Saddam. Why haven't we invaded Zimbabwe? Kim Jong Il has killed more of his own people than Saddam. Why haven't we invaded North Korea? The Communist Chinese government has killed many, many times more of its own citizens than the Ba'athists, why haven't we invaded China?

    There's a long list of evil governments that have done as bad or worse to their own people, yet you conservatives have yet to make a single peep about invading any of them. Not even a suggestion. Thus we know your argument that "we invaded Iraq because Saddam is a bad man" is bunk.

    Never mind the fact that "bad men" are besides the point. Our focus is and has to be al Qa'eda. "Bad men" will have to wait until later. Iraq is a distraction.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm sure in their own way, the administration means well. A big part of the reason we're in Iraq is that the people in the admin were trained for the Cold War and they can't imagine operations on this scale without massive state-sponsorship. However 9/11 itself and everything we've learned since then points to al Qa'eda as a thoroughly non-state entity that largely depends on a few rich wackos and "charitable donations."

    Somalia or Sudan should be next on our target list, but only after we get Afghanistan back on its feet. Iraq was a distraction, worse it was a distraction that has cost us valuable alliances and made it categorically impossible for us to win the "hearts and minds" battle for the Arab and Muslim populations.
     
  14. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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  15. Xynrx

    Xynrx IncGamers Member

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    I love the US. Their government lies, cheats, and murders and no one's the wiser. Janet Jackson's boob flops out and the whole nation is up in arms.
     
  16. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    So Colin Powell has now publicly acknowledged that his UN testimony was faulty. As one of the moderates in the Bush camp, I was always curious as to how he felt about that speech considering the outcome of the subsequent inspections.

    Is this his attempt to offer regrets?

    Just who were those purported Iraqi officers in the tape recordings -- some more of Chalabi associates?

    Did all of his intelligence information come from the CIA or was it supplemented with "intelligence" from the OSP?

    I have always admired Colin Powell. His credibility, however, was certainly hurt by this UN speech...If I recall it correctly (and I have slept since then :p ), it was a forceful, compelling speech that seemed to leave little doubt about the guilt of Iraq's government and its desire to both obtain and hide biological and chemical weapons.

    Colin worked with Rumy, Wolfowitz, and Cheney on an almost daily basis. He knew their obsession with invading Iraq and the lengths that they would go to obtain their goal. He detested Chalabi.

    Although I understand his loyalty, he should have known better.
     
  17. Underseer

    Underseer IncGamers Member

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    Hey, don't lump us all in with the conservatives. Their moral priorities are seriously screwed up, that's all.
     

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