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yet another noob question about skillers

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by tomersss, Feb 22, 2017.

  1. tomersss

    tomersss Diabloii.Net Member

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    so.. which skillers are worth keeping and which are worthless?
    obviously sorc charms are always good but i was wondering if barb ones are any good or summoning(druid) ones..
     
  2. Treeharl

    Treeharl Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hmm let me give a reply to that one from my opinion. Between () is what you should keep.

    Amazon
    Bow (5+dex,30+ life)
    Java (all)
    Pasive (5+dex,30+ life, 12 fhr)

    Assasin
    Material Arts (35+ life, 12 fhr)
    Trap (15+life, 12 fhr, 5+ str)
    Shadow (37+life)

    Barbarian
    Warcry (all if you make a full bo barb else 30+ life)
    Combat (12 fhr, 5+ str, 25+ life)
    Mastery (41+ life)

    Druid
    Elemental (15+life, 12 fhr, 5+ str)
    Summon (41+life)
    Shapeshifting (12 fhr, 5+ str, 25+ life)

    Necromancer
    Poison and bone (all)
    Summon (12 fhr, 5+ str, 20+ life)
    Curses (41+life)

    Paladin
    Combat Skills (all)
    Offensive aura (12 fhr, 5+ str, 25+ life)
    Defensive aura (41+ life)

    Sorceress
    Lightning skills (all)
    Cold Skills (15+life, 12 fhr, 5+ str)
    Fire Skills (15+life, 12 fhr, 5+ str)
     
  3. DiabloTwoinDC

    DiabloTwoinDC Diabloii.Net Member

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    .. aaand anything below those you can just send my way. ;)
     
  4. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

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    Depending on how deep your roster of charms (and characters/builds) are, you could probably get a use out of nearly all skillers, just because of how useful (and relatively rare, equipment slot wise) +Skills are in a general sense. Since (most) synergies aren't boosted by +Skills, more often than not you're either going for skillers that boost multiple skills you use in one tree (See: Any Sorc tree) or boost your primary attack skill(s) that has good scaling which usually means non-Physical skills.

    It's more a question of whether you have something else you're looking for that would be more well suited. For some characters you're just filling in resists/life and other breakpoints, whereas some people are getting their Sharp charms or MF/GF. If you're worried about running out of space more than worrying about filling it, that's probably the cutoff for having to take it more seriously.

    Of course, if you're only going to stick to the tried and true builds you'll probably not find a use for a number of skillers. But most trees are focused on in one build or another and obviously would be a boon to them. For example the Summoning Druid skills do synergize from levels given by +Skills, so if for some reason you wanted to make an all out Summoner (probably even a Shockbear) that could be beneficial. Off the top of my head the most niche is probably Necro +Curses and then maybe Paladin +Defensive, although I'm sure an Abbot or some such could make use of the latter.

    Obviously there's going to be a huge difference between "usable" and "Best in Slot" but if you're at that stage well, you probably don't need my advice.

    Personally if I have extended stashes available, I usually just bank them all due to how relatively uncommon they are. Whether that speaks to some hoarding nature or jank theorycrafting on my end I couldn't say.

    I'm sure someone with more credibility will swoop in with an exact list, but I just wanted to throw out that general opinion.
     
  5. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

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    I don't see any problem at keeping all the skillers you find, plain or not. Does it cost anything? No. Do you use external stash? Yes. Therefore, keep them all.

    As for value, that varies a lot, but there are certain skillers that have rather specific than general usage.

    Amazon:
    Java - best, very useful and most commonly used skiller for amazons
    Bow - poor, but needed if you plan on trying something with bow skills
    Passive - very poor to hardly useful at all, maxers pretty much win over this skillers, so...

    Assassin:
    Trap - obviously best and very useful
    MA - poor unless you are into Phoenix Strike. Otherwise nearly useless
    Shadow - amazingly useful for PvP, limited usage for PvM

    Barb:
    Warcry - poor usage, but at least 3 are good to have for potential pit singer. Or, keep all if you like to sing
    Combat - unless you are into PvP leap barb, useless
    Masteries - that is supposed to be a skiller? More like a waste of 3 slots

    Druid:
    Elemental - very valuable and by far most used skiller on druid
    Shapeshifter - good to have for some shapeshifters
    Summon - mostly charms for fun to make summon druid for lulz

    Necro:
    PnB - masterrace skillers for necro
    Summon - great if you are into skeletons
    Curses - waste of inventory slots, even with 45 life

    Paladin:
    Combat - pretty much only paladin skillers
    Defensive - are you gonna pray a lot? If not, lol.
    Offensive - simply beaten with combat skillers or maxers or whatever. Potentially used only by auradins

    Sorc:
    all skillers are useful obviously, though generally it is Cold >> Lightning = Fire just because how amazing farmer blizzard sorc is
     
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  6. Treeharl

    Treeharl Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, while you can put everything at your extended stash you are hoarding too much situational stuff at that point. If I had the option as for example bliz sorc to chose 3 18 life scs or a clean cold skiller I will take the lifers anyday. For me personally clean skillers don't have much value at all (exept pc,java, light and pb skillers). Imo clean cold skillers are junk (I am sorry). This is also reflected on online play from a while ago, when you finally found that clean cold skiller you could sell it for an Um after you wait nearly an hour and atleast 5 people have asked you if it has any substantial add (bit ot).

    I am the person if he finds 4 shako's he gives one away because it has no use hoarding another one. Hoarding too much stuff is imo a bad thing unless you can give that stuff to others (or trade it).

    Skillers are not rare at all, roughly 1 in 15 gcs found in hell is a skiller. Run lower kurast a lot and your stash will explode if you don't mule...
     
  7. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

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    @Treeharl

    Have in mind that most players don't have enough non-plain skillers and I believe most players use at least few plain skillers on their characters. It was not uncommon sight for players to ask for plain skillers to use for pvp because they don't have them. It will pass considerable amount of time before every single skiller in someone's inventory has some useful mode with them, especially for players who don't trade.

    Once player has all plain skillers he needs, he could consider not picking them up anymore.
     
  8. Naturallog

    Naturallog Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'll throw my opinion in. Any marked keeper should be kept unless you have ones with better secondary mods already. Don't bother with skillers for builds you never intend to use.

    Amazon
    Bow- Only if you want to make a freezing/immolation arrow build, otherwise worthless
    Java- Keeper
    Passive- Worthless

    Assassin I don't play, but trap GCs are required for trap builds so keep those.

    Barbarian
    Combat- Worthless
    Masteries- Worthless
    Warcries- Useful for singer, otherwise worthless

    Druid
    Elemental- Keeper
    Shapeshifting- Only for Fire Claws or Rabies builds, otherwise worthless
    Summoning- Worthless, unless you want to make a summon based druid for fun.

    Necromancer
    Curses- Worthless
    Poison and Bone- Keeper
    Summoning- Keeper

    Paladin
    Combat- Keeper, but only for hammerdin.
    Defensive Aura- Worthless
    Offensive Aura- Keep only for auradin builds, otherwise worthless.

    Sorceress- All skillers are useful, but only for builds based around their element. Lightning is the most valuable.
     
  9. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just one question. Why are lightning skillers considered most valuable? I ask this because regardless of this thread I have read much more people saying lightning skillers are most valuable, but never understood the reason. Because lite sorc is best Baal runner among sorc variants?
     
  10. Treeharl

    Treeharl Diabloii.Net Member

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    @Gripphon because light skillers are clean usefull where clean cold skillers are much more lacking. As a blizz sorc I do have to find an exeptional skiler to beat mf scs (if I am mfing) or resist / life scs. While I am aware clean skillers are rare for several people they are rather puny in general.

    5 clean light skillers on a sorc are the difference between p3 or p5 cs. Whereas I can run trav p3 on a blizz sorc without skillers if I have decent resist life. My point is a clean light skiller has much more use as a clean cold skiller, if the skillers both have 35 life a cold skiller should be worth three times over the worth of that lightskiller. A light sorc doesn't get hit or is named Treeharl with coa + eni (I don't have such sorc on SP because I play way to much classic), where a blizz sorc and that applies even more to fireball sorcs get hit constantly.
     
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  11. Naturallog

    Naturallog Diabloii.Net Member

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    Light skillers are valuable because they make more of a difference than cold, and fire sorcs are usually dual element so fire GCs don't help their secondary element. A blizzard sorc can annihilate things without any skillers at all, so you're balancing maybe killing stuff a hair faster against the MF you lose. A light sorc, on the other hand, needs more damage from skillers before they stop seeing a difference in kill speed.
     
  12. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Those are good arguments, but let me add another one what I had in mind as primary argument why cold skillers are more valuable, and that is frequency of which each build is played. Nowadays, from what I see, blizzard sorcs are everywhere. Let's ignore areas like AT where skillers are not used anyway, but Travincal and CS is full of blizzard sorcs. On the other hand, lightning sorcs are rather rare sight outside Baal and definitely much rarer sight in general than blizzard sorcs. So, would random player have more use of a skiller for widely popular blizzard sorc, or for rather rarer lightning sorc? For example I also have lightning skillers, but those are by FAR least used skillers among my sorcs. Okay, you can blame me for not running Baal much and for playing PvP, but still.

    Otherwise I agree with presented arguments, I just think because of reason what I said actually makes cold skillers perhaps more desirable among the players. I could be wrong though.
     
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  13. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just keep every one of them. For example, I used recently coupled of Hexing GCs, and now I'm using full inventory of Shogusha's (Martial Arts). There just might be the one build that would like to use them, so why not to save them? :)

    But, anyway, in my opinion the most useless skillers are Barb combat and master's skillers. Usual melee charms are better.
     
  14. helvete

    helvete Diabloii.Net Member

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    This is 1.00 speaking. As soon as you get ATMA, and at the very least, when you get GoMule and is able to search... Keep anything even remotely useful. Unless you have a better version of it, and you know you won't need more than one at a time.
     
  15. T72on1

    T72on1 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Keep them all. The rich people might have enough to not botter with plain ones, but I'm certainly not one of them. I have spent some 300 - 350 hours on my Sorc now, probably some 100 hours on other characters, and I'm still not swimming in skillers. 8 Assassin Traps and Sorc Cold skills (very convenient ;)), but for other categories, much less. Sorc Fire skills for example, I only have 2. Which is a pitty, as I want to respec my sorc to full Fire. But that's another story.

    The point is ... skillers don't drop as often as some people make it out to be, and certainly not skillers with useful mods. Of those 8 cold skillers for example, 4 or plain ones, 2 have not so useful secondary mods and 2 have useful mods. Says a lot I think. I'd also be surprised that 1 out of 15 GCs is a skiller. Seems a much lower amount to me, although I never really counted, so that is just gut feeling.

    I agree with others that skillers have at least situational use, that's another reason why I advice to keep them all. Even my Cold Sorc, which some people apparantly agree on that they don't need many, is very happy with hers. She's set when it comes to life, mana, resists, ... so I don't see a reason not to add the plain skillers. I definitely noticed the difference in killing power.
     
  16. Burgomaster3

    Burgomaster3 Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yeah, definitely keep them all. Even if you are a hoarder by nature, it's doubtful that skillers are your biggest problem in that regard. Getting useful skillers is in no way guaranteed to happen regularly, so even plain skillers should be kept.

    The way I tend to think about skillers, is that they equal damage. Meaning, if you use skiller, you use it because it makes you do more damage. That's the biggest reason why skillers like necro curses, pally defense or zon passive are so useless; they add practically nothing to your damage output, and have better defensive alternatives, like life/res charms. If you are dealing physical damage, max dmg/AR charms add more to your damage output than skillers. If you have your life/res and MF pretty much covered, but could use more damage, plain skillers work fine. If you don't need more damage, use something else.

    Of course, some more exotic builds make great use of even the most useless skillers, so it's good to keep those too, in case you get bored and want to try out something different.

    If you have useful skiller with useful suffix, you've pretty much struck gold, and should be extremely happy. Especially if said suffix is 30+ life. Those charms are way more hard to come by than high runes, and, depending on build, can really make a difference.

    The game is also unfair. I still don't have full set of PnB skillers, and I have like 10 Hexing charms. Same thing with Amazon, barely full set of Javazon skillers, Passive skill charms in abundance. It's as if the game knows. Which it kinda does, I guess.
     
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  17. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I'm almost fully behind Gripphon, except for this:

    I think it's Lightning > Fire > Cold

    A blizzard sorc is amazing enough without any skillers and probably with a 4 ist shield and 6 ist weapon as well to kill with ease in /p1 Tunnels and Pindle (I'm doing that with Ali Baba and Rhyme) and to stay alive easily in /p7 LK, so she could wear another twenty MF SCs instead. Of course, increasing MF from 400 to 500 won't do much regarding uniques, but it will have an effect regarding rares and set items because MF has quite a bit less diminishing returns on them. I admit that mine is using four skillers, but just because I don't have enough MF charms... and 2 of the skillers have decent amounts of +life :)

    To my experience, lightning sorcs need a lot of +skills to be good at dealing damage, so an extra few +lightning bonuses have a significant effect, in particular regarding broken immunes which might have their resists in the upper positives. Perhaps it gets easier if you have enough -res gear like Griffons, Infinity and facets everywhere, however.
     

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