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(Yet another) best build competition

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by darksentinel, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. darksentinel

    darksentinel IncGamers Member

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    (Yet another) best build competition

    Ok, this thread is yet another attempt to discern which build is the best for 1.10.

    What do you think is the best?
    Post your build, and vote on them later.

    Stuff we're looking for:
    Can deal with immunes (eg not a pure Blizzard sorc).
    Can solo hell (not fast necessarily, but can do it).
    Doesn't get stuck at any point (eg, doesn't take an hour to kill normal Duriel...).
    Is not overly gear dependent (not everyone has BotD, or Engima).
    Is fun too play
    Originality...maybe

    Extra stuff:
    Any other cool bits. Also MF, PvP, meat tank, good in teams and solo etc...

    Stuff we might see:
    Barbs (WW, concentrate etc)
    Pals (lots of them)
    Assasin (MA mostly)
    Druids (I dunno, i see druids, but havent played them much)
    Necros (pb, i have doubts on summoners - alleviate them ;))
    Zons (first ever char was a zon)
    Sorc (meteorb maybe or lightning, i doubt others cos of synergies, but heck, surprise me ;))
    Other great ideas you guys have :D, and yes there's so many out there.

    Stuff we're not expecting (but we could be pleasantly surprised ;))
     
  2. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Undoubtedly the best build is the Hammerdin. Overpowered, yes but no other build can boast the power and domination this build has. Only one immune monster (Wailing Beast) means no immunity problems. The only weakness would be the susceptability to ranged attackers.
     
  3. Elcold

    Elcold IncGamers Member

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    Druid

    Wind druids are also good and have two different attack elements (cold and physical) so you wont run into much that you cant kill. Also are good tanks, team members and arent too gear dependent.
     
  4. frederikdnd2

    frederikdnd2 IncGamers Member

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    I guess the build does matter loads, but how much does it matter for the person who controls the build??Because i've seen guys that bought all their loot from shops, and still died with ease in the battlefield, with those uber chars
     
  5. Jaimes

    Jaimes IncGamers Member

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    There's a way to tell which build is the most powerful in 1.10, simply look at the ladder rankings.

    As you go through Asn, Ama, Barb, Druid, you'll see that the minimum level is all around 92-94. But when you get to the paladins.. You see that there is an overwhelming number of high level paladins, and that the lowest level is 97 on the chart (and, you surmise, there are many many other 97 paladins which don't make it on the list).

    This isn't just because hammerdins are a very powerful, popular build in 1.10. It's because they are the only build disgustingly overpowered enough to EASILY run Baal, and thus the famed Baal bot runner is born.

    The extent of this plague is such that there is an oversupply of Baal games.. meaning that even very sturdy games with high level "Baal bots" don't get much participation because there is such a saturation of these Baal bots.

    Once you play in a game with a Baal bot, maybe you won't find this to be true but IMO it sucks. You may not be overpowered like he is, and poor Baal bots rarely take care to clear the tp so you will get shredded upon entering the Throne of Destruction.

    Hammerdins are definitely the most overpowered build of 1.10, with only .05% of the monsters in the game immune to them, and those in a part of one quest in one act in one difficulty mode. They will never ever encounter trouble with an immunity because their hammers simply don't have any.

    There really is no contest... Solo all of the game, do it easily and do it with high block rates (Holy Shield)? Sign me up! At least, many people across B-net have said that...
     
  6. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Player skill is a factor certainly. I've been witness to countless powerful characters but the players have no idea how to use them.

    A lot of this comes from rushing. When you play through the entire game you learn more about your build and what can and cannot be done with your equipment. Many unskilled players begin Baal running and find out they have no clue how to play.

    (What irks me is the calls of "n00b" whenever a player uses a build outside the norm, when clearly there is skill required to complete the game...)

    When you say 'shopped' do you mean items bought from vendors?

    This can be deceiving. Simply because the majority are using Hammerdins can mean:

    - They are a popular build as they are not 'n00bish'
    - As we both agree they are overpowered.

    There are several other builds which can compete with the Hammerdin. Compete but not dominate.

    - Wind Druid
    - Lightning Fury Amazon
    - Fishymancer
    - Venomancer
    - Avenger

    The only reason these types of build do not dominate the top eschelon's of the Ladder is that they are not as fast as a Hammerdin.
     
  7. Vakarrona

    Vakarrona IncGamers Member

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    Although everyone says Hammerdin is the mighty overpowered character in 1.10 I would say it's because of gear combination. Ok, there are no imunes to him but with medium items it's hard to do hell solo, there are to many ranged attackers dealing a ton of elemental damage, even with 75% block there are some beasts hitting really hard... he isn't so easy to play like you all say, try to go in most areas, not only baaling!! It's hard to aim in some particular areas/zones/situations. In hell your life will go down very fast. I'm saying all this because I'm playing a hammerdin now, I don't have a zakarum shield, shako or some other good gear. Yes I can kill things in hell but I have to contantly be drinking potions and running away to survive. Play it legit, play it within entire game and he will not be so overpowered as it might look. Most people argue he can kill everything with no trouble... now tell me, in those parties what is his equipment? 99 in each 100 enigmas are duped, so let me say again, play legit and watch someone playing legit and then remake your thoughts about hammerdins.

    Enoughf of hammerdins.

    Answering the topic, I think there are some builds capable of doing hell solo and still surviving.

    - A summoner necro can clear almost every part of the game with minimum problems. Not very gear dependant although better items = better killing speed and chances to survive. I've been in the side of hybrid summoner/poison and he is very versatile. Only major problem is maggot lair.

    - A trap assassin is very good to. If you run in the middle of mixed light imunes and some other monsters, lay down some death sentrys and will be no problem. MB sure kicks butts and saves your life. Fade for mode res, minion to meat shield. She is very good soloing.

    - A wind druid might be a good choice too but I have never played one.

    Area of effect spells, ranged spells and so on. That's the key to success solo.
     
  8. Singollo

    Singollo IncGamers Member

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    a firend and i tested a poison.summon necro vs hammerdin. we race in many areas like pit, throne room, and cows. when it came to bosses the hammerdin was better but in areas with out bosses we found the summoner with max nova and max synergies was better and a lot faster. both were in top end gear. the poison/summoner needs deaths web to be best and enigma.

    build were pally a hammerdin with hammerdins and synergies maxed and maxed concentration and rest pumping holy shield, 13k hammers iirc

    necro was max poison noava and max synergies, 1 in summon rsist 1 in lower resist 15 skeleton mastery, 18 in skeletons (lvl 94 atm) and with charms and items he has 146 from targets poison res and 40% ed doing about 8.6k poison dmg, with the - resis if target has -100% poison resist, the dmg come to about 34k over 4 secs witch is enough to wip out many monsters even in full games then CE and skeletons help with rests, i can take down any mob in few secs.

    i have played many builds, hammerdins, one tree sorc of all types, duel tree sorc, zons fury and strife, wind druids, trapsins, wwbarbs, bone necros, poison necros, and off them all i find poison/summoin necros to be the best over all with hammerdins and orb/ meteor sorc in 2nd and 3rd
     
  9. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Without making too many assumptions here as well, I also believe a players skill will also determine the speed of a run as well. I am not taking anything away from the testing however, some nice results.

    Hijack

    I have in my possession a Death's Web. I have always been quite interested in making a Poison/Summoner but have struggled to make it past the half way mark. I find if I concentrate on the Summoning side first my skeletons are too weak for NM and if I concentrate on Poison it is difficult at the start. (I mostly play solo) Do you have any advice?

    /hijack
     
  10. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    well you may be weak for nm how im not quite sure but as long as you can drop one monster use corpse explosion this will bring down the rest rather quickly and with amp dmg it will also help.

    hammerdin's powerfully and pretty damn quick

    fischy mancer summon ce kinda slow until first monster drops and very quick afterwards amp dmg gives near imposible to be immune to anything but to beat those stoneskin PI youll need another attck or skeliton mages this build is nice because not all skill points are needed can get by with about 65 more or less

    poison summon hyrbrid has no slowness kinda weak at begining though if you go poison route but with ce can survive until poison dmg goes up.

    pheonix strik assaisain with teleport kick slower than others without lots of ias but can still kill greatly with no imunes

    magezon verygood but has mana problems for a while needs to scarf mana pots in beining alot

    the infamous witchyzon very nice different attacks all with magic and physical dmg

    whirlwind berzerk barb slow compared to the rest but can get by well

    metorb sorc does really well pretty speedy to if emphasis is on fire with only 20 fo and 1 coldmastery

    windy druid and frost zealot do well but they do run into a few imunes
     
  11. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Thank you for the advice.

    I will begin the Venomancer Hybrid and see how I go this time. :)
     
  12. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    your welcome good luck also you might be able to rely on your merc 4 that a bit use an act2 nm might merc and throw a insight on him and all your mana problems will vanish completely.
     
  13. darksentinel

    darksentinel IncGamers Member

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    Well anyway, back on topic. I never actually listed my personal preferences in terms of this comp.
    I have recently tested PB Necros, and they are good. Although personally I can't seem to make them work ;), same as Barbs. I have had good experiences with a number of Paladin builds, primarily Zealadin (a bit item-dependant imo, but that may just be me) the Avenger (I really like this one, and it is definitely a very party-friendly build with Conviction, and the Resists), and the Hammerdin (which i think is overplayed, and possibly overpowered, it will be interesting to see what the next patch will bring - i played several all-paladin games today, which gets a bit dull).

    As stated, immunes can be quite a problem for most of the builds (one reason Blizzard invented parties, which I'm glad for, because Blizzard also invented Blizzard...).

    More feedback would be great!
     
  14. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Skellymancers (summoners) are one of the better builds of v1.10. Their playstyle is different to the others, but when played smartly they are quite enjoyable and efficient. More than capable of being used as a Magic Find character, and can have a large amount of MF placed on them and still progress.
     
  15. ladydraxis

    ladydraxis IncGamers Member

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    I'm just going to get this out of the way right away: I hate hammerdins. I built a very powerful hammerdin during the first ladder season, so I speak from experience (i.e. don't flame me as a noob). They are overpowered, overrated, annoying, and VERY expensive to build well.

    Contrary to popular belief, there are actually several monster types that are immune to hammerdins. The fact that you don't know this shows that you have not played through the game with your beloved hammerdins. Points in case: Plague Bearers, Wailing Beasts, and Horadrim Ancients. All 3 immune to magic. Hear me? IMMUNE TO MAGIC. That means your hammers do ZERO damage to them. But you don't care....you teleport straight past all that stuff on your way straight to the throneroom. Good for you. Get bored much, killing the same small group of monsters over & over? I sure would...

    So yeah, I don't have a hammerdin. And no, I don't do baal runs, aside from with my MF chars (and never with Joe Public).

    With all of that off my chest, I have to say that to me, for a build to be considered THE Best Build, they must be:
    1) easy to put together when you start with NOTHING
    2) able to handle everything in the game, nothing immune to them
    3) able to solo hell in a full game

    Those considerations in mind, I have only two nominations for THE best build:
    1) Concentrate/Berserk Barb
    2) Hybrid Summon Necro (Bone or Poison, take your pick)

    The barb because all of his skills mesh so well, most are synergies for the others. You get a full IK set on him & BAM! You've got a rock solid Behemoth. Nothing is immune to this beast. High life, high damage, high resists, high AR, HUGE defense, smarmy black outfit, and even decent MF; a sweet combination of all things good. Most expensive piece of gear: IK armor (which is still cheap, even early in the seasons, compared to the elite gear of other popular builds).

    The necro because since he's not in the front lines of battle, you can get away with not having great resists or a ton of life. The skellies take the real beating & you can always summon new ones if you lose one or two. With his curses, nothing is immune to his skellies till late in nightmare where you may find an occasional physical immune boss that doesn't lose the p.i. when amped
    (which is where bone spirit or poison nova comes in, not to mention whatever mages you have). This is a highly effective build. Most expensive piece of gear: Marrowwalks.

    When the ladder resets & we all begin season 3, these will be my first 2 characters. I'll lay odds that I'll beat 95% of the hammerdins to hell baal...and I'll be sure to turn back and wave once I'm standing on his puke covered corpse!

    In the end, the choice of what THE best build is in 1.10 will always come down to a person's playing style. Some builds work well for me, but won't for you, and vice versa.

    But you can keep your verdammt hammerdins.
     
  16. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    Point in Case:

    - Plague Bearers
    - Horadrim Ancients

    Blessed Hammer ignores Demon and Undead resistances.

    Therefore only the Wailing Beast (animal) is immune.
     
  17. Vakarrona

    Vakarrona IncGamers Member

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    They are very expensive to build if you think of enigma, hoto, maras and so on. The truth is that you don't need none of these to play with a hammerdin but then it's not that easy like many say it is.

    Contrary to YOUR OWN belief, only imune monster to hammerdin are Wailing Beasts since they are animal type. Every undead imune to magic is not imune to hammers.

    I don't do public baal runs in hell neither. Considering I'm hardcore player I'm not willing to risk my characters to some unscrupulous PK armed with tons of hacks. I still do baal runs with my friends, private.

    You forgot 4) able to serve a cup of coffee with a toast

    Well, you see, you don't have a full IK set when you start all over. You don't even have a decent weapon to choose wich mastery you will be spending points in. Now join the fact 3) able to solo hell in a full game.

    True, a summoner hybrid is a good choice to start over. I prefer poison route because bone requires too much synergies. But like the barbarian problem, you can't solo hell games with full players.

    Good luck!

    Very true, I agree with you.

    I don't like hammerdins much either because of play style. Anyway they have their problems and they are not that easy to make solo in hell with medium gear. It requires more strategy and caution that it seems to be.
     
  18. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

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    I know from experience that nasty Ranged attackers can hurt a Hammerdin badly.
     
  19. parkerbsb

    parkerbsb IncGamers Member

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    Dual dream Melee sorc should be right up there. Sure they have a hard time dealing with lit immunes (still quite easy), but the fact that they can kill Uber Diablo in under 3 seconds has to mean somthing.

    Having +3k life never hurts either :D
     

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