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YET again the same question -Shape Skilers or Damage charms? der=0

Discussion in 'Druid' started by -Ferro-, May 25, 2005.

  1. -Ferro-

    -Ferro- IncGamers Member

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    YET again the same question -Shape Skilers or Damage charms?

    Hi there,
    Im planing to do a fury wolf, on Europe Ladder. I wonder which build is best, jalas/enigma/storm; jalals/fortitude/Storm; CoA(ber)/Forti/Phoenix...etc. With this, what charms suits better to this build, Shape skilers with life or max/ar/life charms?

    Also read in a recent thread carrion does can be actually usefull in pvp, does it worth maxing it? What im planing to do is:
    Max fury, lyc, wereform.
    Not sure whcih spirit to max, HoW or Oak, what you think for pvp?

    Plz Im looking forward to hear your comments.

    Fer
     
  2. Forcefeedback

    Forcefeedback IncGamers Member

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    My damage calculations are made with a perfect 3 ed/IAS Lo griswold's redemption.

    Max damage 381
    Max damage gain from one shapeshifting charm 381 * 0.17 = 64
    Max damage from max charms from 3 spaces 3 * 3 = 9
    Required damage modifier for max charms to be better 64 / 9 ~ 7.1

    Thus you need a damage modifier over 7(means titan using fortitude) for the max charms to be better in terms of damage.

    The small charms should be much better for life and ar though.
     
  3. stoutewolf

    stoutewolf IncGamers Member

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    min damage gets boosted by shapeskillers too, and you forgot that i think Oo
     
  4. aznbboi16

    aznbboi16 IncGamers Member

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    Not sure where you got a max damage that high. Last time I checked, my 351%ed/lo gris caddy didn't even break 200.

    Also, good point about min dmg, since Gris caddy has a rather tight damage range.
     
  5. lCE

    lCE IncGamers Member

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    Hey ferro duel my wolf when ur done :), as for ur question, i use 10 shapes with 3x life, for sure 3/xx/20's would be better but i believe shapes is the next best thing since they give u life %, min/max dmg, and pretty good AR. (Best thing would be to prebuff with 10 shapes, then switch to 10/xx/3x or 4x lifes but time consuming and rarely necessary).
     
  6. Forcefeedback

    Forcefeedback IncGamers Member

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    My bad, the page I was quickly using a dubious page which was saying cadecus has base 83 max damage. :rolleyes:
    Okay taking minimum damage into account and using the right numbers I'll try to recalculate...
    perfect is 360ed%

    37 min damage
    37*4.6= 170
    170*0.17= 28

    43 max damage
    43*4.6= 197
    197*0.17= 33

    28+33= 61 total added damage
    61/9~ 6.8
    It still means you need fortitude and over 380 strenght for the small charms to provide more damage.
     
  7. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    Your maths is majorly flawed.
    First of all in either the case of max or shapes the fury wolf has (probably :eek: ) maxed fury for big ed%.
    And you again forgot to not only use max for the max/life part.
    Also you are calculating this assuming the inventory is empty and you are adding 3 spaces worth of charms.
    Really it just depends whats better - but for cost shapes > max/life.
    As base weapon damage increases shapes become more effective but as use of fort/phoenix ed% increase so do the benefit of max/life.
     
  8. -Ferro-

    -Ferro- IncGamers Member

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    Ya to the point is right. Thnx Forcefeed, for your try, ill make the numbers (deeply) and post. Anyway, any experienced wolf has tested enigma vs forti vs phoenix vs COA vs Jalas vs Etc...? Pure Vita vs Titan vs balanced stats distribution? I dont feel like rebuilding many chars, my f-list for boosting is more empty as days go by!.

    Edit: Hey ICE, whats the value of shapers 3x life this days in our realm? :uhhuh:
     
  9. lCE

    lCE IncGamers Member

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    a 39 life is around 4 ists - bought one from soeki for that, lower ones go down accordingly, say 37 can be bought for 3, 33's or so as low as 1.5.
    As for ur question - well depends who u plan on dueling, imo for pure melee fortitude> enigma, phoenix is not worth it really, but u could do this if u had a nice rare fanged, I plan on using a ber ber CoA on my 2 handed eth tomb setup.
    As for going titan, it will probably only work if u have access to many perfect charms (either 4x life shapes or as close to 10/xx/40's or 3/xx/20's as possible), otherwise the wolf loses his main advantage - life, since the damage isnt his main advantage anymore (zeal synergies TT), and they arent exactly known for having high defense either.
     
  10. -Ferro-

    -Ferro- IncGamers Member

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    Made some numbers, could be there are few mistakes, feel free to make any comment:

    Were Wolf clvl 90

    SETUP1
    Jalals
    gris caddy (perfect socketed) / 6BO cta
    Enigma
    Storm/Spirit
    Draculs
    Verdungo
    Gores
    Bulk
    Raven
    Higlords
    anni 15 all stats
    9*3max/xx/20 life

    Stats with gear:
    338 vita
    191 strengh
    217 Dex

    base damage: 183.5 (caddy average)+13.5 (charms av.)=197

    Damage with 10 shapers/35 life:
    Fury lvl 42:797%ed
    strengh:191%ed
    total ed= 988%
    TOTAL DAMAGE=197*10.**=2.143,36
    Life:338vita+180life(level 90)+530life (charms)=1217
    BOlvl14=+74%life
    Lyclvl42=+250%life
    Oaklvl30=+175%life
    TOTAL LIFE=1217*499%ed=7290


    Damage with 10 GC 10max/ar/35 life
    Fury lvl=32:627%ed
    strengh:191%ed
    total ed=818
    TOTAL DAMAGE=(197+(100/2))*9.18=247*9.18=2267.46
    life=1217
    Lyclvl32=+200%ed
    TOTAL LIFE=1217*449%ed=6681.33



    SETUP2
    dropp enigma and use fortitude instead. Basically you need to invest 44 stats on strengh instead on vita. I make calculation with 10 skillers/35life

    Damage:
    Fury:763%ed
    strengh:191%ed
    Forti:300%ed
    total ed=1254
    TOTAL DAMAGE= 197*13.54=2667.38
    life=411(274vita)+180(lvl90)+530(charms)=1121
    BOlvl12=+68%life
    Lyclvl20=+240%life
    Oaklvl28=+165%life
    TOTAL LIFE=1121*473%=6423.33


    So:
    enigma setup: 2143 damage;7290 life
    forti setup:2667 damage; 6423 life

    Lets compare damage a bit deeper:
    since we have 70% ds, and appliying the DR and pvp reductions/penalties:

    -Enigma:2143*1.7*0.5*1/6=304 damage inflicted
    -Fortitude:2667*1.7*0.5*1/6=378 damage inflicted

    If 2 opponents , one wih enigma setup, other with forti, would face each other, who would win?
    -Enigma guy would be able to take 7290/378=19.3 hits
    -Forti guy would die at: 6423/304=21.1 hits

    Very close indeed. I personally think that enigma setup could be better in the long run due to the extra frw you need to catch teleporters, eventually, higher life helps .

    Anyway, plz read it all and point out all the mistakes I´ve done for sure. Dont be too much offensive, plz :lol: .
     
  11. lCE

    lCE IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, looks very very close indeed. U might wanna run this calculation using a grief pb, myself i found it superior to caddy. (not for all situations though).
     
  12. -Ferro-

    -Ferro- IncGamers Member

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    hmn, grief pb is -70 weapon, do you know what is the fpa sequence fot this one? And what about ebotd zerker, which is -60, good damage and range?
     
  13. lCE

    lCE IncGamers Member

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    both grief pb and botd zerker hit 5 fpa. (the grief can have any ias even a 30% one will hit the bp). Only use i see for the zerker is dueling barbs though.
     
  14. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    fury druid- max dmg charms
    rabie druid- shape gcs

    fury/rabie druid? shape gcs, period.

    max out oak sage, HoW is ridiculous since spirit get killed easily in pvp. ( u will have re-cast all the time to maintain good dmg, so oak, which gives u more life for tanking casters)

    with ebotz u wont hit the last bp. So i did go with grief pb, (in ladder) or botd pb. (in non-ladder)
     
  15. inkanddagger

    inkanddagger Banned

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    Botd or grief - shapes will add more damage. caddy, fanged knives, cruels, and other weapons under ~350 top damage will benefit most from max dmg charms.
     
  16. mckfroig

    mckfroig IncGamers Member

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    Hello!

    I don't think this has been touched on, but shapeshifting charms would also boost your life and ar too would they not? They boost both Lycantrophy and Werewolf for life as well as werewolf, fury for ar. So in the case of 10 shapes with life vs 10 dmg/ar/life of same life, while it does depend on the base ar and life of the wolf, the shape charms would add more life and would still add some ar too right?

    Please correct me if I'm missing something! Good luck with your build!

    -Mckfroig
     
  17. -Ferro-

    -Ferro- IncGamers Member

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    Yes, you are right.
     

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