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WW Sin Priorities/Gear

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by AtTheDriveIn, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. AtTheDriveIn

    AtTheDriveIn IncGamers Member

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    WW Sin Priorities/Gear

    Ok so whats most important to WW sin and in what order?

    Ill have these goals met no matter the gear
    -Max DR
    -Max Res
    -4 Frame WW's

    BUT I dont know whether to go for the 42 FCR breakpoint and sacrifice other gears, or go for 86 FHR breakpoint and sacrifice too? SO what comes in what order? Id say FCR is pretty important.

    I want to use these items so far...
    Chaos+Fury (runic or feral)
    Shako/CoA
    Maras/2+assa, 10 FCR
    Bramble/Nigma
    Dungos/Arach
    Ravens/Angelic
    Trangs
    Shadow Dancers ..mayb upd gores..

    Any opinions?

    Thanks Guys.
     
  2. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    Get the 65 FCR breakpoint. To do that you need an ammy with 2/15+ and a FCR ring. 65FCR/48FHR is the optimal combo imo, although 86 FHR is nice to have if you run CoA. With CoA and dancers you can easily get 86 FHR with a few charms.
     
  3. WhiteAlien

    WhiteAlien Banned

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    WWsin is not Ghostsin. If you intend to use Enigma, then you must get good FCR. For WWsin 20%fcr from Trangs is enough.

    For wwsin who will never wear Enigma the optimal gear is:
    CoA 2xUm's or 2x15% all res jewels
    Bramble
    Chaos/Fury (all in Suwayyah's); Chaos/Jade with 15%IAS/30% light res jewel (antiFoh setup); Chaos/Fool's
    Dual raven's + Maras, will give you ~6k AR, with Fool's 14k AR, Fool's + limb 19k AR
    T-Gods
    Trangs
    Shadows is the only option

    With this you will get ~130% all resist in Hell (75/80/85/75 real), 4fps FHR, decent FCR (only used by MB) nice dmg, if you have good Bramble.

    Whitealien



     
  4. AtTheDriveIn

    AtTheDriveIn IncGamers Member

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    I see what you saying white, BUT Nigma will be for casters I guess ( plus its nicer to teleport around and maintain wep block). so Ill use nigma with the FCR ring and ammy. And ravens and bramble for melee gear.

    BUT about the Suwayyah... Why? Its slower and has Less damage. Dex/Str req? Dex and str should be obtainable from items, maybe a few stat pts.

    Also, is trangs 20% FCR with 25% psn dmg or 25% FCR and 20% psn dmg?
     
  5. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    I think a circlet like so:

    2Sin/30FRW/Visionary/Extra mod (res/dex/sockets, ideally sockets with 15/7s in them)

    and Goreriders fit better in the assassin. It's nice to be able to use angelics as well. Then you can use Verdungos because you don't need a strength boost.

    Pros: More overall life (can have base Strength an a minumim of dex with a good +Str circlet), Same DR as the CoA setup, more OW/DS (hits the cap with Fury equipped), the FRW is very useful, more AR.

    Cons: Loses a little Res, a bunch of FHR (48 instead of 86 BP) and 1 point off shadow skills and 2 points off your BO (no spirit, plus the CoA would have added another universal skill)

    You shouldn't need the Dex on Dancers to equip Suwayyahs if you use 2 Ravens. If you don't mind losing a bunch of life in your pub setup you can add 30 dex and be able to use Angelics. It's mostly personnal preferance, but I'd take the Circlet setup personnally.

    Edit: Suwayyahs do more damage, they can be eBug, have less requirements, trap laying doesn't matter on a bramblesin. If you are going for a combo (bramble for Melee, Nigma for casters) just check out Speederlander's guide on WW/Kick/Stun assassin and do a search for Dual (Triple?) Use Assassin guide for a pretty much perfect explaination on gear switching.

    Also, Trangs have 20 FCR, if only it was 25!
     
  6. AtTheDriveIn

    AtTheDriveIn IncGamers Member

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    Ya. But as for wep speed. With runics and ferals you need no IAS to hit 4 frame ww's. With suwuyahhs you need IAS to hit the 4 frames, but since we are using Fade and Trangs Gloves, no IAS. Im not sure how IAS 15% jewels in helms work.

    And how do you bug eBug (eth bug, like armor?)

    Ill take a look at those, but check this out. This is where i got my ideas.
    http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=2342450

    He emphasizes on mobility>power
    Just thought I'd throw that out there.
     
  7. WhiteAlien

    WhiteAlien Banned

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    IAS from other equipment items does not work for ww. With 0 base IAS (like suawayyah's) you need only 13% IAS to get 4fps ww. Only IAS from claws work, so Fury have IAS and Chaos too. You will need to socket Jade with 15% IAS jewel if you want to get last bkp with it.
     
  8. AtTheDriveIn

    AtTheDriveIn IncGamers Member

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    Do DS, CB And OW stack on to each other or role seperatley?

    Say you have Gores, Guillumes and Highlords with Chaos and Fury. thats a lot of CB, OW and DS... But do they all add together or do they roll independatly like:
    15% DS from item a
    15% DS from item b
    Do you now have 30% DS or 2x 15% DS?

    Thanks for the answers.

    Also, from your guys experience, which way would I have more success. Using nigma to stay alive in pubs or just going power with bramble, or building my azn so she can switch gear for appropriate char (im leaning toward this).

    Also, Trap/WW sins, theyre good... How good? Are they more for owning Hdins and other casters but strugle when it comes to WW babas and Smiters/Chargers?

    Max which first MB or Shadow Master? I think MB.
     
  9. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    I think that WW/Traps are overall better than pure WW. The traps really help against opponents who are strong against pure WWsins (BvC, Desync Hammerdin, Bone Necro). Pure WW is better against many types of casters, especially eshield sorceress (traps suck against them at 7k).

    Sources of DS or OW stack.

    Enigma is by far the superior pub choice, it lets you get to town quickly, stay mobile, engage all different types of enemies, get out of sticky situations (good luck surviving a triple team if you can only run and WW). A well played Enigma assassin is superior in pretty much every way to a pure Brambler. A pure ghost with enigma struggles against Smiters and WW Baba, which is where gear switching comes in. Keep in mind that this is a trade off, a good friend of mine on D2 uses a gear switching WWsin, he hits 3.4k life in pub setup, whereas my WW/Trapper gets 4.2k. You are giving up life to have a chance to beat certain opponents.

    MB over shadow master on a pure WWsin.
     
  10. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    Disagree.

    Just because a wwsin has more of a reason to use (65+) fcr to teleport, does not make having less fcr a better choice for nonenigma wwsins.

    mb/traps are still key for any type of pvp wwsin gameplay. Enigma/bramble/fort/whatever, you want to have fast trapset speed on fade, you want to have extra fcr for mb.

    Example:
    I run 42+ fcr on my nats set wwsin (because that is all I can fit in with my setup) as well as a runic chaos to speed up trapset speed. If someone were to build a nats set wwsin with only fcr being from trangs and a suwayyah instead, I would consider it a worse wwsin build setup vs all.
     
  11. WhiteAlien

    WhiteAlien Banned

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    Are your sure you dont mess up FCR with IAS? Talking this way actually there is deeper philosophy when you create a new char. You cannot have everything perfect, like FCR, FHR, IAS, res etc. You just need to point out what is more important for your build. So in my opinion to have other stats optimal for pure wwsin FCR is not so important. It is extremly difficult to squeeze out something original from classic uniques items. And to get uber good rare items seems impossible at all.



     
  12. wizAdept

    wizAdept IncGamers Member

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    ias for traps, fcr for mb, whats to mess up?

    Of course.

    High tier budget wwsins can have setups so they get everything, this is of course not possible with all builds.

    One of the reasons I like my nat set sin is that being a set build is limiting on the character and forces me to prioritize on what is important so I can still win duels with it.

    See what Im trying to point out is in caster gameplay, enigma/nonenigma, fcr/ias are more important for the build, they are the priority.
     
  13. WhiteAlien

    WhiteAlien Banned

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    So this is where I disagree with you. WWsin is not a caster. Why should someone bother of IAS if you have plenty of it on claws? And why bramble sin needs high fcr? I did not get it. Mostly you do just 3 operations, DF, MB, ww. By fcr is affected only MB.

    Actually you learn to live without Enigma. Keep full rejv with you in case someone wants to pk. That’s all. Otherwise use engima and go for mobility, even so you will loose thorns aura, what is handy vs melee and more dmg.


    Trap/wwsins is overall better than 2 other types of sins, as they have ranged attack. Their main problem is that anyone can sorb traps and if it is done you are pretty much doomed as your ww dmg is very low. Also traps/wwsins struggles with low AR and extremely difficult to make gear. As well as learning curve for this build is very steep.



     
  14. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    A WWsin should lay Wake of Fire or LS traps to make mind blast stun, on its own it won't do anything but provide slightly better stunning with WW. Trap laying is affected by IAS, which means that if you want to trap a lot, you need IAS on your claws beyond just Chaos + Fury. Runic Chaos + Feral Fury + 15% IAS helm will get you the 9 frame trap laying breakpoint. Also, WWsins are as close to being casters can any melee build is going to get (maybe T/V).

    Here in the US, learning to live without Enigma means learning to lose all your duels against top players. Without teleport, Barbs will HF you and cripple you, hammerdins will be eternally out of reach, Sorceresses have no reason to get on your screen, Necros can BS spam forever, the list goes on and on. Maybe it's different in europe.

    A correctly build WW/Trapper will have a WW that is 200 physical damage less than a Ghostsin. Not a big difference. The main advantages of Ghost assassins are longer stuns and more flexability, at the cost of traps.
     
  15. WhiteAlien

    WhiteAlien Banned

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    I dont know what trauma you have got in US with Enigma. I think there is no big difference in duels there or here and I can admit I got PK'ed a lot in duels while I learn how to survive without Engima, but now its fine.

    Why you talk about physical dmg? You know very well that sins main dmg is venom and OW, not physical. Ghost sins or hybrides will never beat Bramble sins in the matter of dmg. And difference can go here over 2k per 4fps ww, what is a lot. Ignore physcal dmg.
     
  16. Josiphos

    Josiphos IncGamers Member

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    I'll toss my findings in here for consideration, but I agree w Whitealien.

    My current WWSin runs this gear:Fury/chaos suwayyahs, BerUm CoA, maras, raven, bk ring, nigma, trang, shadow dancers, crafted blood belt w/fhr, ow, resists, 60 life, 24 cr, 15 lr
    4 trap gc, 5 shadow gc, life sc, torch anni

    She's got max dr, and resists in Hell (30% over on cold and lit). maxed venom, and most lightning synergies (only 10 in shockweb so far, cl 87)

    She has no Dragon flight; I prefer to teleWW.

    I haven't had a problem with fcr, but I play more defensive. Against hammerdins and sorcs I try and get them to chase me into a trap field. Smiters are not really a problem. Most charge you and get murdalized in the trap fields while I ww away.

    WW barbs are a real problem though. Especially Bvc with tele.

    I think the gear comes down to what you can find. Rare circlets/ammies with godly mods are TOUGH to get...near impossible unless you can win any bidding war on Bnet <----not me.

    Arachs belt does not really impress me for this build. Yes, it has 20% fcr and +1 skills, but no fhr, no resists, no dr, no life...that and you need a good fcr ring to use with it (and trang) to reach the 42 fcr breakpoint. 10% slow makes no impact 95% of the time. My opinion is more balanced gear (and easier to get) is better for pubs.

    Maybe in private duels against someone with uber gear, and you have your fhr covered with 4-5 fhr skillers...maybe the fcr starts to become warranted.

    I just dont see it though.
     
  17. Arbedark

    Arbedark IncGamers Member

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    White, if you survive without enigma then you are facing utter retards...

    NO question AT ALL. Enigma is a MUST to be able to compete against ANY DECENT opponent...



     
  18. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz IncGamers Member

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    Nope. :thumbsup:



     
  19. AtTheDriveIn

    AtTheDriveIn IncGamers Member

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    With Chaos/Fury you achieve, what was it, 91% OW? your bound to get 9% more with other gear to get 100% OW. now with malice/chaos you get 100% ow pretty much and thats all, so wuts the point if your getting 100 OW neway?
     
  20. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    Each weapon in a whirlwind attack hits seperately, so if fury hits you have a 66% chance of OW, while if Chaos hits you get 25%. They don't add with each other. However, if you wear Draculs (just for example) you would add 25% OW to each weapon, then having 91% and 50% respectively.

    65 FCR is very, very helpful to a wwsin. You cannot achieve good, complete stunlocks with anything short of 42. 65 makes it much easier and faster to stunlock people, allows you to tele-ww from namelock faster, lets you move faster and keeps your casting animation nice and short so you won't get hit and interupted in the middle of it. FCR is much more important than FHR on a WWsin, mostly because between whirlwind and run out you don't really need to teleport out of a stun very much. 65FCR/48FHR is 100% > than 42FCR/86FHR, based on a lot of test duels.
     

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