WW Ghost Sin Help: Claws.

[Eze]

WW Ghost Sin Help: Claws.

Hi everyone. First of all I would like to say that ever since i have played diablo I had always hoped to see a char like the ghost sin. This would have to be my favorite char build, from its fighting style, to its look, I mean, traps, stunning and WW with 2 fat claws while you tele around? How much cooler does it get? :thumbsup: . I could go on and on but I wont.

Anyway...i didnt even know such a char existed until 2 days ago, I got killed about 10 times by one in a duel game lol. I asked the guy the build name, he said Ghost sin, and here i was looking for it. I am now dying to make one cuz they seem like a lot of fun. Versitility has always been my thing in d2 and these chars seem to be the masters of it.

Anyway im rambling on bout how cool they seem, now for u to help me :grin: . So first of all i read the guide and it was great but i didnt understand the ias and trap laying speed and claw speed, all that stuff so heres what i want you to help me with:

I want to use a Chaos claw and a Fury claw so, can someone please provide me with a list of the different claw combos that would work and still hit the breakpoints?...like i believe 2x suwayyahs would not work...? but thats just an assumption. just a list of all the combos of claw combos that would actually make sence would be nice so like you dont have to put down all the low damage ones that would work lol. Just the claw combos that make sence when using fury and chaos.

Also offhand and primary? left is primary right is offhand correct?

Finally, defence doesnt matter in the build it seems so a really low str low def nigma would be best to save points for vitality correct? Thats all i really need, Mainly the claw combo list please! Ty so much, cant wait to make this awesome build!:thumbsup:

 

[mephiztophelez]

use runic talons or greater talons for both claws (wsm -30).

with 15% ias in your helm, the Fury on primary and the Chaos offhand, you will have 9frame trap laying as well as 7/3 d-talon.

 

[BobCox]

Lets take this from the bottom up.
Sins and the on hand off hand stuff is really the hardest thing to get down as you can swap so easy without realizing you have done it. It's going to take time and practice to get there.
Suwayyahs don't work for PVP. and in addition to the 2 big dog claws you named you are going to need a good Fools claw (AR+++) with mods.
Calm down a bit, re-read all the guides and check the latter posts for version changes and the updates to them, learn the basics while leveling one up and and then rebuild if you mess it up.
If you want the experts opinion go read recent posts by HappyAssassin & TienJe.

 

[TienJe]

the claw over the gloves is primary, the one over the boots is secondary; however, they switch when you WSM bug.

there are probably 10+ different claw combinations that would work, so you'll need to give us the rest of your equip/build before we can help you narrow down your choices, and whether you're willing to WSM bug.

i hate acting like my guide is definitive, but for the most part, the setups listed at the end are pretty much what you should use, at least for your first ghost. the claw selection on those builds (believe it or not) weren't random. they were chosen considering speed, damage emphasis, and reqs, and so any sort of advice i'd make here would be mirrored in those setups.

 

[Eze]

Ok dont exactly know what you mean by calm down. I could go through the guide and check the later posts and all that, this just seemed way easier than going through all that, and i could get different opinions.

From what i read in the guide, you need a chaos and either a fools claw or fury, not both. Did i misunderstand?

And as for the On hand off hand thing...Now im really confused...How is it hard?

The main thing i wanted to know was a few different claw combo's i could choose from. The guide suggested Ruinic Talon Fury and Feral Claw Chaos i believe. Is that the one and only best combo for Chaos/Fury? or are there different options?

 

[TienJe]

Ok dont exactly know what you mean by calm down. I could go through the guide and check the later posts and all that, this just seemed way easier than going through all that, and i could get different opinions.

From what i read in the guide, you need a chaos and either a fools claw or fury, not both. Did i misunderstand?

And as for the On hand off hand thing...Now im really confused...How is it hard?

The main thing i wanted to know was a few different claw combo's i could choose from. The guide suggested Ruinic Talon Fury and Feral Claw Chaos i believe. Is that the one and only best combo for Chaos/Fury? or are there different options?

make sure you read the section about the physical and venom damage spectrum in the guide; it helps you understand the claw selections made later on. i know there's a lot of filler to read in that guide beyond just equip and skill setups, but i'm sure at least some of it is useful :wink:.

runic fury + feral chaos are the best claws only if you choose a physical orientation with highlords, and aren't considering WSM bugging.

 

[Eze]

First of all ty for all the advice so far but umm...

Ok, yeah, it said you didnt have to go full one way or the other, if i had to id go physical oriented cause that gear is more available to me and i want to use fury, the fools claw seems kind of difficult to get, and fury is just cool. I would prefer to land somewhere in the middle of the spectrum though if that is possible. It seemed that the only difference between the 2 spectrums was in the claw and amulet, pretty much, oh and charms. and thats where im undecided. My plan for gear was somewhere as follows:

2skill/20fcr sin circ
Chaos/Fury claws, dont know which type, thats why i wrote in 1st place lol
Low str req enigma
Spider
Ravenfrost
10fcr Life leech mana leech ring with other useful mods
trangs gloves
treks
Mara's or some sin skill ammy with useful mods, wasnt really planning a highlords.

I was thinkin cta/spirit on switch...or maybe shadow skill prebuff claws...but i was originally planning a Cta and spirit

As for charms i was just gonna get a healthy mix of shadow charms and max dmg/ar/life charms along with an anni and torch.

So there is a gear list as of now...I dont know exactly where that would end up on the spectrum, but that was my vision. Maybe that will help you advise me some more.

And my final question...it may be a noob one i dunno but umm... What is WSM bugging? lol

Ty again.

 

[TienJe]

First of all ty for all the advice so far but umm...

Ok, yeah, it said you didnt have to go full one way or the other, if i had to id go physical oriented cause that gear is more available to me and i want to use fury, the fools claw seems kind of difficult to get, and fury is just cool. I would prefer to land somewhere in the middle of the spectrum though if that is possible. It seemed that the only difference between the 2 spectrums was in the claw and amulet, pretty much, oh and charms. and thats where im undecided. My plan for gear was somewhere as follows:

2skill/20fcr sin circ
Chaos/Fury claws, dont know which type, thats why i wrote in 1st place lol
Low str req enigma
Spider
Ravenfrost
10fcr Life leech mana leech ring with other useful mods
trangs gloves
treks
Mara's or some sin skill ammy with useful mods, wasnt really planning a highlords.

I was thinkin cta/spirit on switch...or maybe shadow skill prebuff claws...but i was originally planning a Cta and spirit

As for charms i was just gonna get a healthy mix of shadow charms and max dmg/ar/life charms along with an anni and torch.

So there is a gear list as of now...I dont know exactly where that would end up on the spectrum, but that was my vision. Maybe that will help you advise me some more.

And my final question...it may be a noob one i dunno but umm... What is WSM bugging? lol

Ty again.

i know the guide says that there is a spectrum, but i have found that being at one end or the other is most often better than being right in the middle.

with your build right now, you're sort of missing out on the all the benefits of going one way or the other. you're using strong claws, so you're losing life due to the high dex reqs, but you're not using highlords to capitalize on the physical damage. if you want to use fury, i would suggest sticking with the physical emphasis build (which is basically just swapping maras for highlords and using more fine/vitas). that means feral chaos and runic fury.

i've seen people use fury + shadow gcs (more overall damage), but you'll suffer from low AR. you'll have enough AR to hit necros and druids, but anything with any high defense (even sorcs with cold armor), will give you trouble, and you'll have to swap fury to a fools for a majority of the duels.

WSM bugging is a little trick that deals with how you position your claws. you basically equip your secondary claw first, and it changes the way the game calculates your average claw WSM, letting you use less IAS to hit your trap BP. the explanation for that is in the guide - its the last NOTE: after the claw listing in the Equipment section. it basically means that you can use fattier claws than you could if you didn't bug. the second to last post in the ghost thread has the chart for the different WSM's you get from bugging. with the physical build's eqiupment selection, you can use any combination that results in -25 WSM or faster.

 

[knuckle]

Sorry to intrude .

Just wondering Tienje = why chaos feral/fury runic instead of chaos runic/fury feral? Is there any difference?

Eze, your claws should be picked based on what you want to achieve with the build and your items.

Generally (without glitching):
2x -30WSM claws (Gts/runics) if you want to reach 7/3 dtalon/9 frame traps
Avg claw -25WSM Is enough to get you 8/3 Dtalon 9 frame traps

As for using gts over runics, its all a matter of if you have enough stats or not. As Tienje said, runics have a very high str/dex investment involved. If you are going the psn damage path, physical damage isn't something you need to worry about so you can just use 2 gts, it will help you get more life.

Generally a good fools claw can replace a fury.
Fools/40Ias/2Sockets filled with UmUm look for skills such as Venom/DF/SM/WoF/LS.

 

[TienJe]

Sorry to intrude .

Just wondering Tienje = why chaos feral/fury runic instead of chaos runic/fury feral? Is there any difference?

yep. its just because theres more ED% on chaos, so you want to put it on the higher damage claw to maximize your damage.

Eze, your claws should be picked based on what you want to achieve with the build and your items.

Generally (without glitching):
2x -30WSM claws (Gts/runics) if you want to reach 7/3 dtalon/9 frame traps
Avg claw -25WSM Is enough to get you 8/3 Dtalon 9 frame traps
Venom/DF/SM/WoF/LS.

theres also the option of using dclaw or normal attack instead of talons as your stacking melee skill, which is a very good option because you'll make use of your claw mastery and keep yourself from having to use heavy boots. you'll really only be using those attacks when you don't need fade (like vs necros or pure hammers), so you don't need to worry about speed. with bos, you'll always be fast enough, assuming that you hit 9 frame trap laying speed with fade.

 

[shopbot]

you guys are wrong!!

the best combo is chaos suwayya and a NO IAS runics, preferable with 300ed and fools mods

and all you need is 20ias from external gear. no need to bug it cos its bugged forever! no need to re-fit every game.

i have a 15ias on my helm and the combo gives me 10fps trap speed

20ias gives 9fps trap.

i suggest getting high ed fools, and go for physical damage, cos venom can easily be negated.

 

[TienJe]

you guys are wrong!!

the best combo is chaos suwayya and a NO IAS runics, preferable with 300ed and fools mods

and all you need is 20ias from external gear. no need to bug it cos its bugged forever! no need to re-fit every game.

i have a 15ias on my helm and the combo gives me 10fps trap speed

20ias gives 9fps trap.

i suggest getting high ed fools, and go for physical damage, cos venom can easily be negated.

i can't tell if you're being serious or not

 

[shopbot]

try it out for urself,
claw bugging without the cons

 

[TienJe]

try it out for urself,
claw bugging without the cons

what you're doing isnt WSM bugging. the only way you can auto-bug is if you need stats from the inventory right claw to equip your left claw, which clearly isn't the case.

if you aren't bugging, that means you have -15 AWSM, which has a IAS BP of 75%. chaos + 20% equip IAS still isn't enough for 9.

 

[struikje]

try it out for urself,
claw bugging without the cons

I love your name

 

[BobCox]

Sorry - You just seemed so excited (Thats a good thing but it tends to make you skip over stuff) Anyway I liked your question and was just throwing my 2 cents in, have Fun and no offence meant ok?

 

[Eze]

Yeah ive calmed down a bit, I take my time and plan my chars, trust me. It takes me a few months to even start a guy, and like forever to technically "finish" I'm a perfectionist.:thumbsup:

Anyway, ill prolly go with the ruinic/feral combo cause i still dont fully understand the WSM bugging, and i dont feel like goin around for the fools claw, rather go the physical route and jus get a fury or make a fury.

I believe your saying there isnt a clear cut winner in Poison Vs Physical, am i correct? I'm asking this because if Poison is actually the stronger way to go, i am willing to, and would rather, go through the extra work for the better char, but if they are pretty much even, i rather just go with a physical based build since its more available to me... I think thats the last question I have but we'll see once you answer it, hopefully thats all i need to know.:grin:

 

[TienJe]

i'm personally actually partial towards the physical builds

 

[Eze]

Well then Tien, since you are the one who wrote the guide and considered the expert here, i guess that finalizes it, Physical build it will be. Now all that leaves is back to claw choice, which leads into WSM bugging and my final question i believe...

WSM bugging: Is the advantage gained from it all that big?, would it be wise to learn how to do it and get better claws? Is it really that hard to learn to do? And are there any risks of losing gear or anything like when you str bug?

If WSM bugging is a good idea, Could you once again, try and explain how to do it (Sorry if i sound a bit stupid and am getting annoying with this lol), and tell me what a good set of claws to use would be when doing this?...in other words, if its a good idea, teach me! pretty please? :thumbsup: . Ty so much for all the help so far, i am really greatful.

 

[TienJe]

i think writing a guide gives you too much credibility :wink:

given that you are a physical ghost, you would benefit from WSM bugging methinks. it bugs your WSM so that it's faster than normal, meaning you can use stronger/slower claws and still hit the BP's. Instead of having to use runic/feral combo, you could use a suwayyah/feral combo, and do more damage without having to add any more IAS.

WSM bugging is just basically just double clicking. you can see me WSM bugging before the duels @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii4P911TzuE

put the slow claw over your gloves, fast one over the boots, and to bug, lift and replace the slow one. you'll have to redo it every time you switch away from your claws. if you want to know the actual formula that the WSM bug uses or just a more indepth explanation, it's explained in the ghost guide as a note in the claw discussion in the equipment selection.