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Ww Bug Unveiled

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by TheToad, Mar 4, 2004.

  1. TheToad

    TheToad Banned

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    Ww Bug Unveiled

    whirlwind is bugged

    testing scenario: 14000 AR lvl ** barb, using eth botd zerker, 1680- 5400 damage, whirling a stand-still necro with 2000 health, 1700 defense, 75 block, and lvl 85.

    chance to hit: 90%

    expected results: last break 3-range ww = 6 hits, and the hits do on average 300 pvp damage without taking into consideration critical strike. assumiing 1.5 hits per ww, it should take 4-5 whirls to kill the necro. should be about 3-4whirls because of criticals.

    actual results: fifteen whirls failed to kill the necro; the test was repeated about 30 times, and not once was the necro killed, and most of the time the necro had more than half health remaining when the mana ran out. most of the wws failed to connect at all. either 1-2 dinging/hitting noises and animations were seen or heard each time.

    also, a charsi-bought normal dagger hit the necro at an equal rate as the eth botd zerker.

    this probably means something is wrong.

    either the ww breaks have been WAY changed, ww has been fixed at 2 hits max per target, or ww's weapon range is restricted to that of a fist, or ONE.

    when the necro walks, a similar effect is noted, except the barb hit almost no times at all and eventually got bored and stopped.

    when the necro runs, he is hit numerous times and dies as expected.

    for all u barb players out there its worth testing, if we make enough noise hopefully blizzard will listen and fix this bug. or feature.
     
  2. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    It's not bugged, it's just your faster run/walk getting you in trouble. WW was changed in the patch so that it's hits are broken down over yards depending on what your r/w speed is; more r/w, hits are spread out over a longer area. This makes it better against multiple enemies/large groups, but worse against small groups/single enemies. This is likewise why when the necro runs, he dies, as his movement speed is keeping him in-sync with your hit allocation speed.

    -Hal
     
  3. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    So basically: more frw means you're hits gets spread over a larger area. Is it advisable to use a lot of frw then for BvB ? I guess not, but I always have as much frw as possible, but doesnt it make the ww less effective now? If for example one barb has 200 frw and the other has no frw whatsoever with identical stuff for the rest, does the the one without frw win? Just trying to figure out if I should switch some frw sc to vita sc for my barb(and no, not fine sc of vita, i'm not that rich anymore on NL ^_^)
     
  4. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    In whirl vs a still target like conc or such, less r/w would give you more hit chances, yes. However, against sorcs and other ranged, mobile targets, more r/w would be important, since it would help you catch up with the target, and give you a longer whirl range to catch them in motion.

    -Hal
     
  5. DhR_PvP

    DhR_PvP IncGamers Member

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    According to the Chance to hit formula [Chance to Hit % = 100 x AR / (AR + DR) x 2 x Alvl / (Alvl + Dlvl)] you would have a 110% chance to hit. Which is brought down to 95 because of cap. Im not sure how fimiliar you are with statistical math so ill keep it fairly simple. If you flip it has 50% chance for a tails and 50% for heads, but you can flip it 100 times and wind up with 90 tails and 10 heads. Basicly what im saying is that your 95% chance to hit can miss alot more than 95% of the time and his 75% chance to block could also happen alot more than 75%. Moving targets also have a 33% of thier original blocking % so hitting a still character is much harder than a running one.
    To really declare if there was a bug in this or not the test would have to be done more times than any one person would have time for.
     
  6. sahlakh

    sahlakh IncGamers Member

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    Thanks a lot guys, new info to me at least.
     
  7. puckalicious

    puckalicious IncGamers Member

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    More importantly how in the hell did you get 14000 AR with WW?
     
  8. Cloud Strife

    Cloud Strife IncGamers Member

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    demon limb, 3/20/20's, angelic, etc.
     
  9. TheToad

    TheToad Banned

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    i tried it agian using no faster r/w besides the 40% from skill. same results.

    then i tried it on my warcry barb which has ZERO of of any sort of r/w

    still same
     
  10. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    I dunno what to tell you man, that's the technical explanation for what's wrong. I've never heard any of the big-name pvp ww players mention any issues with it; l2aider seems to kill everything he runs into fine, using a BotD Berserker whirl barb. His AR is well over 20k though, somewhere around 25-30k, so that might be the difference.

    -Hal
     
  11. spiderman2k9

    spiderman2k9 Banned

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    which weapon is best for barb pvp'ers?
     
  12. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Lol, you've asked this in like every thread on the board, lol.

    If you're going one-hand and a shield, the BotD ethereal berserker axe is the best weapon you can get. If you're going two-hand, a BotD great poleaxe or ghost spear, and if you'll be alternating, you have no real choice besides the cb. That's pretty much it.

    -Hal
     
  13. TheToad

    TheToad Banned

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    the problem isnt killing stuff, most of the time ppl move and stuff so its not a big deal and theycan get hit and die

    the main thing is ww is 1/3 as strong as it should be with it hitting 2 instead of 6 times

    where'd u get ur explanation of ww increases with run speed at, i looked through the entire patch documentation and also tested it myself, makes no difference

    also, i tried pumping AR to 40k with a bunch of steel GC. same thing

    ww is bugged. test it yourself.

    heck, go on open/single, set players to 50 so the zombies have alot of life, give urself a few billion AR, no run speed at all, and a bit of cold damage or fire damage. whirl the zombie. TWO HITS.

    then, put on vigor+inc speed+BOS+a few hundred thousand item run walk. try again. same result. TWO HITS

    just for fun, i tried it with a warpike with a few hundred ias, so it hit last ww break... guess what.. two hits. its supposed to be be eight, by the way. last time i checked, zombies dont have blocking.

    im thinking that instead of caluclating the range of the weapon as 3 or 5 or whatever, its setting all the ranges to 1. that would explain why a wizardspike hits just as many times as a botd ghost spear. might be cause the new ww animation is from talic, and monsters have 1 range.

    someone else go test and see for urself
     
  14. Rostedt

    Rostedt IncGamers Member

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    Try with similar barb setup(with high rw) in single player and in bnet. You should be able to see what's problem in ww...in bnet ww travel speed isnt same on client and server side.
     
  15. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Firt off, the run/walk factor was taken from older patch nots, and is something we've believed around the forums for awhile now. It supposedly affects the way hits are split up over the course of the whirl, though Blizzard may have taken it out without mention, just as they did the reload timer on whirlwing (in the beta, whirlwind had a slight delay in between spins..you'd spin, stop, spin, stop, etc). I'll do some more digging and try and find out.

    As for your problem, I am unable to replicate it, and havn't heard any other complaints about it. I tested against enemies just as you said on both bnet and single player, and found no bugs; In single player, I was scoring up to 4 hits against Shenk. On battlenet, I was likewise scoring 4 hits against Shenk. I have yet to try it against another player, but I'll check it out once I can get up with l2aider.

    I likewise don't know that you could actually get a full 8 hits or whatever off on an enemy, since it's a mobile skill. I'd think the hits would be spread out over the course of that whirl - 8 hits per whirl, instead of per enemy, per whirl, and so you could get z amount of hits moving across an x/y coordinate, where z is hits/range, though since it's spread out a single enemy standing in any one place could only be subject to that z amount, unless it moved along a vector with the avatar. This is just hypothetical thinking, we need to take a look at the code to see how the hits are applied in whirl.

    Rostedt's latency theory could be the issue; where are you, compared to the server you are playing on, and what is your connection? Your client/server timing may just be off.

    -Hal
     
  16. l2aider1

    l2aider1 IncGamers Member

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    I have no idea what hes talking about, and am not aware of any problems. First of all there are 2 things about a necro you may be negleting. Is he using bone armor? Because with synergies now that will take a few hits by itself, and if he keeps recasting theres your answer. Second, if it was making clinging sounds I'm assuming this is a 75% block necro, and there goes 3/4th of your hits. So bone armor + 75% block easily explains your 15 hits to kill. But if he has no block and has no bone armor then all I can tell you is your laggin my friend.
     
  17. Rostedt

    Rostedt IncGamers Member

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    I play with ~50 ping in europe, under 110% rw from gear rules on barb.

    Best way to confirm this is zombie test. Go into moor and make long ww(with fists, no weapon) into zombie at edge of screen. You'll see that zombie dies before you reach him, barb travels only about half of distance in client side, but kills zombie.

    Then repeat this in single player with barb using same rw and you'll see difference here, barb reaches zombie before hits it.
     
  18. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    this could be a technique issue. try whirling through targets rather than at their feet as in .09.
     
  19. Norton

    Norton IncGamers Member

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    I tried this zombie thing you are mentioning. I see nothing different.

    I tested it with 1 berserker:

    Always hit atleast 3 times

    2 berserkers:

    I couldn't tell because the zombie died

    I fought dclone with 2 berserkers:

    Dropped him like a fly in under 30 seconds

    My baRB:

    16K AR (without the enchant thing)
    4.7k ww dmg
    4.3k life

    Conclusion:

    I see nothing of the sort that explains what's happening to you.
     
  20. Rostedt

    Rostedt IncGamers Member

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    I dont mean how many times you hit, but where you hit. That test is done in normal diff so zombie dies in 1 hit, but it shows how much faster ww travels in bnet server side.
     

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