Wow. Ladder RW's are powerful. Too powerful... :/

Sir Dante

Diabloii.Net Member
If you are playing Untwinked and rerun areas then Insight is the weapon. This is how I play. It is vastly better then anything else you can hope to find. I will go with two situations. And I am talking about as an offensive Weapon. The Meditation Aura is just a freebie.

Act I Nightmare. 4 Open Socket Partizan and the Runes Required to make Insight. Untwinked this is extremely powerful for so early in the game. It actually is better then almost all two handed exceptional Elites and the better ones cannot be dropped until late Act 3 Nightmare and Act 4 Nightmare. Not to mention the attack rate bonus on Insight is higher then alot of level 20 Melee Skills.

Now lets take upped Normal Uniques. First you have to find the unique then use the upgrade Recipe. The upgrade Recipe has the same requirement of a Sol Rune. The only Uniques that can compete are Bonesnap and the Unique Great Maul. (Name slipped my mind) You will have a much harder time finding the Uniques Untwinked then the Partizan.

It is the Whirlwind Weapon untwinked for early Nightmare. I use it on my Fanatic Avengers. (20 Vengeance, 20 Fanaticism) It is a good Bezerk Weapon. Not only do all three of these builds benefit from the damage they are all Mana hungry melee builds that benefit greatly from the Aura.

It is also the staple of my Ambulancedin build.

Now in mot cases it is simply used for Mercs to benefit caster players. But in the above situation it is the melee weapon if you are Untwinked going two handed.

It is much stronger then Honor. And Honor is harder to make. Not to mention 5 Socket Weapons cannot drop until Hell, And it is extremely annoying using the Cube recipe to get 5 sockets in early Nightmare. The Runes and Gem required to add sockets to a weapon are of the same value as the Runes required to make Insight. And if you don't get 5 sockets it is a waste. So you are most likely going to use your socket reward which is best saved for Uniques. And that reward is useless if the weapon has a max of 6 sockets.

My biggest problem with Spirit and Insight is that they are designed for Hammerdins with Act II Mercs. The most ununique and most found set up on Battle-net. Buy the way I hate mercs and want them gone if they add another patch.

4 Open Socket Paladin Shields drop in Act 1 Nightmare. You can go base strength and make it early. While other characters will need to invest in strength and can't get a Shield until Hell or possibly late Act 5 Nightmare.

Paladins can make it in a War Scepter with 3 to Blessed Hammer and 3 to Concentration. This is the Hammerdin Weapon. Necro's and Sorceresses have much better options since they can't make it in Wands or Orbs and most Sorceresses go Orb, Shield over Staff. Not to mention the life boost is way to high.

It is great for a War Cray Barb going all Vitallity and Dual Wielding Spirit Crystal Swords.

When these two Rune-words were added they had a certain thing in mind.

Make nearly everybody use an Act II merc.
Make the Hammerdin more godly.
Make every single build have base Energy. (This is my biggest problem with the game)

Since Energy ends up being a useless stat people rarely invest in it. And since they don't they have Mana Problems on occasion. Since most Noobs on Battle-net go cookie cutter caster with no Energy, they were whining and complaining about running out of mana all the time. So they made Insight with them in mind.

However I still think "White" is more overpowered then the two Rune-Words above. Not to mention it was designed with only one Character in mind. You can shop 3 to Bone Spear from Normal act II. Then get the runes in 50-100 Nightmare Countess runs.
 

Hp_Sauce

Diabloii.Net Member
You could have the same effect by constantly drinking mana potions, and the potions drop so often that you'll never be in short supply. If you want to see overpowered, consider the Act II mercs versus the other mercs. I can only think of one PvM situation where an Act II merc isn't the clear-cut optimal choice (Fire rogue is better for a pure bonemancer).
I could pot, pot, pot, pot, pot, pot, pot, pot, pot, pot... but why? its easier with Insight, my merc still doesn't die, and I don't want him to kill. Besides, I still have to pot just less often now, trust me. Its better for me and my zon.

its not like Insight proves that someone can't pot or doesn't have the skills to pot, or doesn't know you can pot. It just means they'd rather do it less.

Buy the way I hate mercs and want them gone if they add another patch.
But why? They are part of the game, you can use them in different ways to add the the fun level!

And Spirit can only be made in Swords and Shields, so I don't think that includes +skill pally hammers. I could be wrong, and my g/f is glarring at me right now to go make dinner so I wont be checking it right now!

-hps
 

Ugla

Diabloii.Net Member
Hello all,
I was a bit confused about some posts throughout this topic, so I step in.

I always considered the word 'noob' as a synonym for newbie (beginner), which is something completely different from being bad mannered.

My only experience with BattleNet comes from Starcraft-Broodwar. Most of the players there consider the others inferior, simply because they feel more experienced (the more different opponents you face, the more strategies you learn and generally have the potential of "growing" faster). I fail to see the analogy in D2, though. First, you receive minimum information while playing; second, the MP and SP builds can differ a lot. Almost all useful tips are obtained either by reading the forum or self-experimenting, which is done by both communities.

Back to main topic. "Insight" is imba, comparing it's stats to runes' availability, just as some others, e.g. "Rhyme". Even if you take meditation or CBF only as a bonus, you'll hardly find any gear with comparably high stats that soon.

Concerning mana issues: I can not imagine what are you doing, when 3 times faster mana regen. isn't enough for you:) Anyway, I agree that it's all about balance. When you find yourself buying potions regularly, reequip. Especially for sorceresses: energy isn't evil. As long as you drink more blue potions than red, your setup is wrong, and with an empty mana pool, 20 more life points won't save you.

Good luck!
Ugla
 

Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
Howdy Ugla.

Apparently, newb (newbie) is different from noob. Newbs have a little skill, but are willing to practice. Noobs are those who don't want to practice, but get the rewards/acknoledgements.
I didn't know there was a difference, as they have usually melded into the same form.

The following is My Opinion, and does not take into account noob/newb. It is in reference to those who don't want to learn anything new or do anything themselves.

In SC, a 'Noob" [really, it should be newb now...] is a newbie, someone less skilled. But it ['noob'] is also referred to those who only use strategies that don't require much practice or skill. Carrier rushing is noob, as it's easy to beat, and only noobs think it's the best thing because it'll beat other noobs.
Not all carrier rushes are noobish though. I myself carrier rushed, but I didn't go all carriers.
For fun, a group of friends decided to have a 2v4 bgh. We got bottom mid and bot left, so great spawns. I zealot/cannoned one to reduce it to 2v3, teched to carriers, and began harassing. I never went for the kill, until they had been reduced.
Most 'carrier noobs' go straight carriers, and attack with 2 groups. That gives your opponent too long to prepare. I began harassing with only 3, and we held while pushing out and harassing.
So carrier noobs can be seen above, but in SC, noob usually refers to the person being new (newbie) or the tactic that one may use is noob-style.

D2 newb is a newbie to D2. Nothing wrong with these guys.
D2 b.net noob are the noobs we are referring to. The annoying kids who think you need 1337 it4mzzz to win. Who go begging for items without anything of value to trade with. That behaviour that is associated with one who doesn't care/want to try.
They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own.
from Corrupted's link.

Hope this clarrifies what I am referring to as a noob.

Ugla said:
As long as you drink more blue potions than red, your setup is wrong,
So most of my builds' setups, despite working are wrong? Almost all of my chars have mana issues. Why, I'm not sure, but I use a lot of mana. And they are generally quite powerful too. I don't use end game gear, nor do I go for mana gear, but I use gear to improve survival while maintaining damage. My gears usually fine for survival. In HC, I'd prefer chugging potions than swap my equipment for mana items. It's style, not a wrong setup.
I do agree that with meditation you really shouldn't need many/any mana potions, but maybe HpS uses more mana that me! :rolleyes: That is still his style, which I can relate to.
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
Ok, quick check shows the following

Insight in Partizan
(102-122) - (225-270)

Pierre Tombale Couant
(100-120) - (215-260) AND 55% DS

Grim's Burning Dead
(72-84) - (168-196) AND 131-232 Fire Damage

Hone Sundan
(95-107) To (193-217) AND 45% CB

Spire of Honor
(87-101) To (325-382)


Damage wise, it really isn't overpowered compared to other items available at the same time. And yes I know one of these doesn't always drop, but neither does a Sol.


Ugla said:
As long as you drink more blue potions than red, your setup is wrong
I must disagree (just my opinion so it doesn't really matter). Many builds have attack options that are mana intensive and powerful. For me, any of these builds that requires more Life than Mana simple isn't inflicting enough damage. Of course, that may also be related to the builds I tend to play.
 

Sir Dante

Diabloii.Net Member
Insight Partizan is available in Act I Nightmare. Hone Sundan and Spire Of Honor aren't available until Act III Nightmare. Insight itself has between 16-46% Deadly Strike. The 200% Bonus to attack rate is a huge bonus. This is Untwinked, Its requirements are between 5-15 levels lower then the others if you twink. When I find something untwinked I am usually 15-30 levels higher then the level required to equip it. Personally only the Hone Sundan is better then an Insight Partizan.

Sol Runes do grow on trees if you rereun areas. All of my Characters once they hit Nightmare spend at least 100 runs sometimes more on the Nightmare Countess. She prepares me for the rest of the game. I don't leave her until I have 7 Sol runes. 3 for helm, 4 for armor, this is every time I play a melee character. Not to mention other Runes needed to cube. Since I am usually using an Honor Elite Weapon in Hell. Until I get an Um and can switch to a Crescent Moon Elite Weapon.
 

Ugla

Diabloii.Net Member
I'll try to explain my above statement about potions more in detail, because I think it might have been a little confusing.

I suggested that if you e.g. drink mana potions only, your build is probably too safe and you should sacrifice some defence, resists (simply survival) to increase your mana pool or regeneration and vice versa.

If you don't drink at all, you should increase your damage or speed to advance faster.

If you drink too much of both, you get addicted and will have a lot of troubles, once the potions are removed from the game in the next patch:) Anyway, if your cash is sufficient and you don't loose too much time shopping, then it's ok again (yet I sort of hate buying potions).

These are just some general remarks on the resource flow. Your play-style then are the limits you set for yourself, what you define as "too much", "safe", "mana intensive" or whatever.

Ugla
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
Ugla said:
I suggested that if you e.g. drink mana potions only, your build is probably too safe and you should sacrifice some defence, resists (simply survival) to increase your mana pool or regeneration and vice versa.
Why so? I think something is VERY right with my build if I don´t need to buy 2 columns of healing potions every town visit. If I need no healing potions at all, all the better!
(motto: one can never be too safe)

Ugla said:
If you don't drink at all, you should increase your damage or speed to advance faster.
Why do that if I am perfectly satisfied with the speed with which I am progressing?

Sorry, I don´t get it. (scratches head)
 

bill_n_opus

Diabloii.Net Member
Thirty-Thirty said:
Don't overrate Spirit in a shield. The four socket requirement means that for non-Paladins it has to go into a shield requiring at least 156 Str. For me, that's no problem, but some players would rather keep the points for Vit.
I just love the SPIRIT shield despite the big str reqs. Haven't made INSIGHT yet so I won't comment. I do have to say that I haven't played a char that had such mana issues that I went out of my way to make INSIGHT. Perhaps, I haven't played that character yet.
 

Ugla

Diabloii.Net Member
@jiansonz: I was merely reacting on jjscud's remark about character balance:
jjscud said:
I must disagree (just my opinion so it doesn't really matter). Many builds have attack options that are mana intensive and powerful. For me, any of these builds that requires more Life than Mana simple isn't inflicting enough damage. Of course, that may also be related to the builds I tend to play.
I suspect him from buying mana potions for half a price, that's all:smiley: Buying potions generally costs time and money.

jiansonz said:
Why so? I think something is VERY right with my build if I don´t need to buy 2 columns of healing potions every town visit. If I need no healing potions at all, all the better! (motto: one can never be too safe)
I never HAD 2 columns of healing potions save for my frenzy barb. Nor I suggest buying any.

jiansonz said:
Why do that if I am perfectly satisfied with the speed with which I am progressing?
Well, the NPC's are evidently not:) The story suggests repeatingly, that you should hurry, which of course doesn't mean to get yourself killed!

I'll make some more remarks later in a special thread, because we went "a bit" off the original topic.

Ugla
 

DarkChaos

Diabloii.Net Member
Insight and Spirit are hax. I'll never use RWM for the reason that a lot of runewords are quite overpowered, even the higher-end ones (although those are harder to make and therefore not as bad as Spirit, which is by far the best caster shield in the game)...

Grief, Death, Fortitude, Oath etc. are also overpowered for the runes they require...
 

logger120

Diabloii.Net Member
No item in this game is overpowered on its own.
Items can be powerful.
Certian combination(s) of items (and sometimes skills Grief+Smite!!!) can be overpowered.

I see plenty of items, not just ladder only runewords, that are extremely powerful. Take for example Reaper's Toll and Kelpie Snare. Between these two and Insight, who uses anything else for their merc??? Or how about Harlequin Crest? War Travs and Gore Riders? HoZ? Just a few off the top of my head.

My point is this, there are some items that are just plain powerful. Some are only useful for certian builds (White), some are only useful to certian classses (HoZ, Occy, Homonuclus), and then there are the ones that are powerful for character type, ie melee or caster (Spirit, Grief, Fortitude, Shako, Reapers, etc).

No item can stand on its own. All items have strengths and weaknesses, some just have more of one thatn the other....
 

mr hamster

Diabloii.Net Member
Hey i don't know if this the right place to say this, but i recently got the RWM mod and did everything the instructions say, but only have a gemmed non-spirit crystal sword to show for it...is there anything specific you guys had to do beyond the 4 simple instructions?
 

Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
Mr hammy.
No mod support here, but I will give something to check on.
I have 3 options to run D2. An option for RRW I usually use, an option for regular D2, and a new option for RWM.
If that's the same case, it is important to run the right shortcut, and also make sure the links are correct.
There's nothing else that can really be said here. Maybe PM the maker.
Other than checking your shortcuts, etc, we can't help.

GL
 
Top