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Would there be any interest in....

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Flamearrows, Feb 21, 2004.

  1. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    Would there be any interest in....

    A tournament of my own devising? See, I've had this idea kicking around for quite some time now. It's a tournament that incorporates more than one computer game, nameably Diablo II and Nethack. I'll start with the basics of my idea

    What is Nethack?

    Nethack is a very old computer game, and is available at www.nethack.org. Unlike what the name would suggest, Nethack is called as it is because it was "hacked up by people on the net". It is a very old school RPG, where you guide your character to the bottom of the dungeon, kill the wizard, and retrieve the amulet. It is extremely difficult - in my years of playing, I have not yet succeeded

    Why Nethack?

    No one here has heard of it. Well, probably not. So that means everyone is on a level playing field. And, it's a cool game that should be played by more people.

    What does Nethack have to do with Diablo II?

    This is the basis for my idea. When you start playing in Nethack, you chose a character class. Each class has it's merits, although some are significantly easier to start off with. My idea was that you would select a class to play in Nethack, out of the 14 or so available. This class would limit what character you would be able to play in Diablo II

    So how would you score it, wise guy?

    When you die in Nethack, you are awarded a score based on the amount of gold you have collected, in addition to how many experience points you have accumulated by killing monsters. Nethack character die compulsivly. You will die many, many times, and often from something as innocous as leaving a corpse a little bit too long before eating it. Anyway, my idea was that you could play as many Nethack characters as you wanted, getting your score as high as you could as long as your Diablo 2 character was still alive. When everyone's Diablo 2 character is dead or guardian, I would rank the participants. So, if you came first in Diablo 2 (guardian at the lowest level, furthest along in game otherwise) and 3rd in Nethack (3rd highest score) your aggregate rank would be 2. The highest-ranking player wins.

    What do I get if I win?

    Well, I've got some nice stuff kicking around. I'd also like the participants to put aside anything that their character doesn't use and contribute it to the tournament pool. Winner takes all the stash, second and third would have prizes from myself.

    Why should I be interested?

    Well, it's something a bit different to the norm. Also, you can win cool prizes. I plan on this tournament going on for a significant proportion of time, so it'll give you a huge sense of achievement if you do well. Besides, we're all not as good as, say, Nightfish. You might be able to kick his candy *** at Nethack though :D

    The Diablo 2 section would be played with the time-honoured tournament rules (no twinking, no save and exiting to prevent death etc. etc.). If anyone is interested, please go and download Nethack - follow the links from www.nethack.org. It's only 4mb or so (probably because it has no graphics to speak of). Download it, read the guidebook.txt file that comes with it and give it a bit of try-out. Heaps of guides can be found on the Internet if you need a bit of a helping hand (search for "Nethack spoilers" in google).

    So, is there any interest? Please, give me your thoughts. If no one thinks this is viable, then I won't run it, simple as that. If you've got any questions, reply in thread or consult the Oracle

    Flamearrows
     
  2. sativola

    sativola IncGamers Member

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    Hmm...what's to stop someone from taking forever to do anything with their HC Diablo II character just to get an uber-high Nethack score? I think some sort of control is needed...perhaps you must complete at least one Diablo Act a week...or something like that.

    Yeah...I'd be interested...If I can figure out all those symbols and stuff.
     
  3. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm. Okay, how about I make it that the tournament ends a week after the first guardian is achieved, or at a predetermined date if no one makes guardian? That way, even if your nethack score is two million (my personal best) you can't possibly win if your diablo 2 character is still in normal thanks to the averaged rankings. In order to conclusively win, you need to do well at both

    flamearrows

    EDIT: Run nethackw.exe for the graphical, windows version. much easier to understand
     
  4. sativola

    sativola IncGamers Member

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    Yay! Graphics. I'll still have to learn the commands and stuff, but still fun to mess around with. Reminds me of my "Swords of Glass" days (another archaic, probably not-well known game).
     
  5. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    I'm in on this one :clap:

    I admit knowing about nethack - too much maybe for this tourney. :D So I would handicap myself and play a Healer :)

    And to give folks more idea on the nethack character options, you chose from the following classes:

    Archaeologist
    Barbarian *
    Caveman
    Healer
    Knight
    Monk
    Priest
    Rogue
    Ranger
    Samarai *
    Tourist
    Valkyrie *
    Wizard

    * easiest starter classes IMO

    Then you pick a race (not all available for each class):

    Human
    Dwarf
    Gnome

    Then gender (again not always an option ie: Valkyrie, Knight)

    Male
    Female

    Finally alignment (again, not all are available to each class):

    Lawful
    Neutral
    Chaotic
     
  6. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    very nice game , but i found myself dying , because i can't find passage. just can't find it. I search for it ( s ) , but nothing . Do this happen to everyone ?

    If yes than i'm in , if not than i will think a bit :lol:
     
  7. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    This is a very tough game - definitely harder than D2. Everyone strugges and dies often!

    What passage are you looking for? Each level has a stairway down to the next, and another one up to the previous. There are also special passages to side quests (stairs, ladders, portals).
     
  8. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    I just couldn't find the way to go somewhere. Imagine the map : two single rooms connected with tunnels. No side way or smth. But that happened only once. I'm ready to join this tourney . 800 points so far
     
  9. brainfloss

    brainfloss IncGamers Member

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    For some reason I just couldn't get into nethack like some other games of its type, i.e. ADOM, Dungeon Crawl.

    Maybe because I always diedbefore I could get out of the Dwarven Mines... :grrr:
     
  10. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    I'd be very interested in this tournament... if only because I have ascended a few characters in Nethack, but have never gone beyond Slayer/Destroyer in D2. ^_^ I'm curious about how the rules are going to be in the end; I assume you're still working some things out here (the "NH character class limits what you can play in D2" bit, for instance--what will the connections be?).

    I'd like to see a closer link between the two games if possible, though. Dungeon depth achieved in NH caps the level you can attain in D2, maybe? Twice your deepest delve would likely work well, but might cripple Nethack newbies too much; maybe 3x, or some other progression, would be better. Equipment you get in Nethack governs what you can get in D2? You may equip (maybe even mule on?) one unique for each artifact you find in NH, maybe, or something more elaborate... many D2 items have corresponding NH items, but that could get to be very hard to plan out and very hard to stick to, depending on how it was set up.

    Anyway, just throwing out ideas. Looking forward to seeing if this takes off!
     
  11. vajurewi

    vajurewi IncGamers Member

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    OMFG!

    I used to play Hack on the mainframe computers at Johns Hopkins back in the mid-80's. Students were allotted 3 hours of comp time a WEEK! Needless to say, I burned my time up in one day and bummed accounts off my non-geek friends. :creep:

    These were the days when the best personal computer game available was Loderunner on an Apple IIe.
     
  12. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    EDIT -

    SABRECAT! :worship::worship::worship: I praise you as my god... I have never ascended a character in nethack, although I've come close. I had a valkyrie who got killed half way up carrying the amulet.

    Ah, good. The geekiness is strong in this thread - I hope we get a serious amount of people playing. Yes, I have worked out the character connections. Those who know a bit are welcome to input their comments to get this fine tuned. For any die-hards in the audience, you're welcome to play any version of nethack you wish.

    Characters -

    As I stated previously, your nethack character you choose limits your choices for your d2 character. from the top -

    Archaelogist - Summoner Necro, only one curse may be used
    Barbarian - No warcries s/s barb
    Cave/wo/man - Arty Necro
    Healer - Clerical paladin (blessed hammer as well, but no concentration)
    Knight - Zealot Paladin
    Monk - Weaponless and shieldless sorceress. Weapons can be used, but if so, she may not cast spells
    Priest - pure Elemental Druid
    Rogue - Venom Assassin (only one point in BoS or Fade)
    Ranger - "Glass Cannon" bowazon, only one point in dodge moves, max of 2 points of vit per lvl
    Samurai - Heavy Weapons assassin (no claws!)
    Tourist - Any class may be used
    Valkyrie - Tankazon (passives only)
    Wizard - Sorceress (glass cannon, may only assign two point of vitality per lvl up)

    Some of them are signifcantly easier, but by god, the nethack classes associated with them are hard. Anyone who's tried a tourist or a healer will know what I'm talking about. As far as level restrictions based on depth of decend is concerned - x2.5 would be the best. The castle is the first serious restriction which occurs, and that's at around level 25. Anyone who hits gehennom for real (Below this entrance is Gehennom. Unspeakable pain and destruction wait below. Enter? [y/n] y. So be it) will have the level cap lifted from their character.

    As far as the item thing is concerned, I'm inclined to think no. Some items give an insane advantage, and artifacts aren't that hard to come across, really.

    flamearrows
     
  13. SabreCat

    SabreCat IncGamers Member

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    Heh heh. My top 8:

    1 7532088 Hunter-Ran-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood.
    2 7289780 Kurra-Wiz-Elf-Fem-Cha ascended to demigoddess-hood.
    3 7108773 Manos-Mon-Hum-Mal-Neu ascended to demigod-hood.
    4 7063470 Strike-Rog-Hum-Mal-Cha ascended to demigod-hood.
    5 6883128 Frida-Val-Hum-Fem-Law ascended to demigoddess-hood.
    6 5274692 Nethya-Pri-Hum-Fem-Law ascended to demigoddess-hood.
    7 4923242 Ramza-Kni-Hum-Mal-Law ascended to demigod-hood.
    8 2567654 Tirmana-Val-Hum-Fem-Neu died on the Plane of Air. Killed by an air elemental.


    I give all the credit to rec.games.roguelike.nethack. Spoilers and a tough-as-nails stance against savescumming will get you far.

    I like the character/build lineups. I'm inclined toward Samurai or Tourist at the moment--but no idea what I'd do on the DII end if I chose Tourist!

    Yeah, makes sense. That just popped to mind because of the various tourneys that either barred or required the use of uniques/sets, but I see why it prolly wouldn't work out.
     
  14. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    I don't have my entire score list on this computer. My second highest character got taken to school by Orcus though. Highest was killed by some sort of Lich. Anyway, people, download the game and get practising if you're planning on entering. Looks like we've got a few people who'll be playing.

    flamearrows
     
  15. sativola

    sativola IncGamers Member

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    Question: Concerning the character matchups...whichever class you pick from nethack is the ONLY class you may use during the tournament, correct? Assuming many deaths along the way...not sure if you can resurrect nethack characters but seems like no. Is this assumption correct?

    Off topic:
    Just realized why Nethack seemed somewhat familiar...back in the 80s, some company called Keypunch software made a package with some Sword & Sorcery games. One of those was called "The Amulet of Yendor" which IIRC is what you're after in Nethack. I think the old-style interface matches pretty closely between the few games (though its been years since I last saw the Yendor game). Main reason I mentioned this is that this package also included my favorite game back then, the above mentioned "Swords of Glass." If you like Nethack, do an internet search and maybe you'll like it to!

    So yeah, I'm off to go practice my Nethacking skills. Hmm...that doesn't sound quite right. :lol:
     
  16. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    When the tournament begins, you'll select a nethack class. this will be the only one you'll be allowed to use. This, correspondingly will select your diablo 2 class. You may try as many times as you'd like with nethack (and nethack characters die with astounding frequency) as long as your d2 character lives. Once the diablo 2 characters gone, your nethacking career is over. In addition, you may only advance your diablo 2 character is acordance will how far you get along in nethack. The level of decent you achieve (the amount of levels down you go) will determine how far along you can advance your diablo 2 character. I've decided to make it 2.5x the nethack level of decent is how high the level of your diablo 2 character can be. So

    If you make it down to level 20 on nethack and then die -
    You can advance your diablo II character to level 50, but no further.

    If you reach Gehennom, or solve Sokoban and retrieve your prize then you no longer have a restriction on the level of your diablo II character.

    I hope that clears it up

    flamearrows
     
  17. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    SabreCat, you and I are both geeks... I played quite a bit of netnack in the 80's and ascended (based on memory) the Barbarian, Valkyrie, Priest and Samurai. I've since had a few computers, and never kept the log files - I'm not quite that geeky :teeth:

    When version 3.1 came out, I noticed the game was significantly more difficult. And I've only managed one ascension, but that was the Tourist :D His quest reward is simply godly - The Platinum Yendorian Express Card, granting item recharges.

    I'm going to try something I've never sucessfully done in NH, create a bow character. All of mine have ended up melee - even the wizard. So I'm starting a Ranger / Bowazon combo tonight.
     
  18. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    I'm ready to join. I will be wizard-sorc.

    P.s and one stupid question : what glass cannon means ? :)
     
  19. sativola

    sativola IncGamers Member

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    Heh...finally did some serious messing around with Nethack...after 3 quick deaths, I got a character down to the tenth level, apparently in the Gnomish Mines, who died from food poisoning by eating a rotten kobold corpse. I should've known better than to eat dead kobolds! From now on its regular food, rations, and pray to god for food. Love that feature.

    I'm definitely ready now for the tourney to get underway. Count me in. Will probably stick with the barb in Nethack. I assume "No warcries, s/s barb" was supposed to mean a w/w barb.
     
  20. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    w/w? no, s/s is sword and shield. Feel free to use whichever skills you want, just no warcries

    A glass cannon character is a character which doesn't invest much in vitality, instead going for the stat point which increases their power. Only two points in vitality can be allocated per level, and in the amazon's case, only one point in dodge skills and only the bow and passive trees can be used.

    Alterego - Nethack is insanely difficult for mere mortals such as myself, but I only started playing come 3.3.1. I have a $20 bet with my friend - the first person to ascend takes the money.

    The tournament hasn't offically begun - feel free to practise, but there's no point creating a diablo 2 character yet. Also, I'll start a new thread in 3 or 4 days and everyone can register properly - then I'll get things underway. With the new level restriction (2.5x the decend depth) I believe the tournament can run until everyone gets bored or gives up. I will be joining, with the tourist 'cause I suck really, really hard at that character class in nethack. I'm planning on starting a hammerdin, because I need the motivation to begin one :) good luck everyone!

    flamearrows

    EDIT: Also, if someone manages and ascension with a nethack character, I'll require a screenshot and a character file, 'cause I'm real anal like that :) Also, that way I can praise you as your skill level requires
     

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