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Worth to make BOTD bow?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by HoFF, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. HoFF

    HoFF IncGamers Member

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    Worth to make BOTD bow?

    Well I FINALLY got all the runes to make a BOTD bow, but a question came to me... Is it worth it to make a BOTD bow? It doesn't have as much damage as a Windforce does, but the +30 to attributes is nice. What should I do?
     
  2. Mehemnoc

    Mehemnoc IncGamers Member

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    Most people would argue against it, but I have one, and I love it. Not just the +30, but other lesser mods make this a very nice bow. I used a hydra bow; someone suggested a faster bow, but with 60 ias, hydra is pretty good.
     
  3. ChiComm

    ChiComm IncGamers Member

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    How does it compare with a Windforce?
     
  4. Mehemnoc

    Mehemnoc IncGamers Member

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    Faster, but with less max damage. I'm still not fully decided, but so far I favor the BOTD because of the other mods. And the poison novas are fun to watch when you're shooting fast.
     
  5. Bakerking31

    Bakerking31 IncGamers Member

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    i personally use a windforce, but i have a friend that uses a BOTD hydra bow, i do quite a bit more dmg with windforce, but her attack rate is faster. She actually likes my WF much more than her BOTD, if i were you i wouldnt do it, i would put em in a eth zerker axe and sell it, but it is your choice, and the two bows both have their advantages, it more or less depends on what you want, more dmg, or more extras like what BOTD offers
     
  6. GhostStealer

    GhostStealer IncGamers Member

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    I dislike the poison nova mod on botd bow, when the poison nova happens it seriously lags my game.
     
  7. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    You can fairly easily get a Hydra bow to strafe as fast as a BOTD.

    And since my Lacerator discovery, the option of wearing Atma's basically carries no weight.

    Although.. the 30 dex on BOTD is pretty sweet.
     
  8. jblakely

    jblakely IncGamers Member

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    When 1.10 came out someone did a comparision of the two and its down there in form pages im sure, but in my opinion BOTD wins hands down if you are talking about building a zon specifically for it.

    +60 ias - you will never get a WF fireing at the speeds this bow is capable of and you have to make a lot of trade offs to even get close by wearing all ias gear.

    -25 target, 200 damage to undead, prevent monster heal - most of these nice little mods would not even be possible on a WF zon buildt for speed, the BOTD bow allows you to fill all the slots and sockets you would usually use for these mods with other nice mods you usually forgo.

    12-15 LL - This one really gives you options with equipment. No need to stick with LL items when you can fill with resistance or MF.

    +30 attributes / -20 req is more than just nice, it gives you many more than +30 attributes to play with. I cant remember the exact requirements of the bow, but once you meet them you can pump everyting into dex and vit and I think give the WF zon a run for the money even on damage. Now my wf zon and BOTD zon are not comparable, because one is 99 and the other im mid 80's and i never used the editor to really check what a 99 BOTD zon can do, but I believe that if you build a bow zon from scratch with the intend to use BOTD she will do very close to equal damage to a WF zon and have a ton of nice mods helping her out that the WF zon could never afford.

    I believe that most people who down grade the BOTD bow it is because they stuck it on an existing WF zon and did not recieve the benefits possible from building her from scratch and not waisting a lot of points for other equipment.

    Jack :drink:

    P.S. I agree that Poison Nova gets old real fast........I thougth it real cool for the first week, now it bothers the heck out of me....
     
  9. JohnsonHoward

    JohnsonHoward IncGamers Member

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    yes i agreed
    BOTD is significantly faster than wf.
    if u use botd in pvm i dont recommand it. strafe in pvm is getting popular. with strafe/atma's ammy/layin of hands. u can pretty much handle any mass demon (act3, 4, and 5 most of the time) situation. if u wear chain of honor combined with layin' of hands, u kill demon monsters faster than any class in the game. 2 shots to kill a champion monster when it's cursed on Amp. therefore a higher dmg bow with decent speed = gg in pvm. i.e. wf is a good choice, the price is affordable and the insane dmg at high lvl. eagle horn is also a good choice. with the ITD strafe hits almost every monster that comes in your way. with the proper setup. it kills faster than wf.

    BOTD is worth makin'.
    it's a good choice if u do pvp. -25%def, 60%ias, 30+ all att, -30%req - - -> these gives the best mods that a pvp bowazon can ask. remember back in the 09 everybody was looking for a cruel matron/matriach bow with over 270 dmg and 30+ ias? yeah... zon got shafted pretty bad after the patch but botd hydra/crusader made up for it. the 350%-415% ed is still considerably high . but with all those godly mods... the ring/ammy/armor slots would be freed to use fast caster ( for telezons), dex/str rings. resist rings, amp ammys... u name it. and most of us are not gonna lvl up our zon to lvl 95 or higher. therefore wf cant reach its max potential.... so why not give BOTD a try.
    just my 2 cents

    howie
     
  10. BT-LightDash

    BT-LightDash IncGamers Member

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    For pvm,both wf/botd is fine
    for pvp,wf>botd[unless you play multishot zon then botd is > wf]

    damage wise=wf wins
    speed wise=botd wins but only by 20-25 ias[since u can shael or ed/ias your wf
    u can easily get that 20-25 ias from other gears but u cant get the insane damage from wf that easily[like a glove or a jewel]
    as for the + 30 stats from botd it's nice but wf adds dex too and knockback
    i dont really comment on life leech/mana leech since they don't work well for pvp
     
  11. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    I disagree. I was very easily able to get a WF firing at the same speed as a BOTD. The only bows capable of having the BOTD runeword are Crusader and Hydra, which have the same base speed as a WF. So essentially, it's a WF with 20% extra IAS, which for me is one whole equipment slot.

    I agree on these, but with enough dex and Penetrate AR should not be a concern anyway. The 200% damage to dead is an unquestionable advantage.

    Nos Coil pretty much does the same thing. Of course, many zons would like to wear Razortail or Tgods there, but I found Nos Coil to fit my needs perfectly, and I have 'enough' piercing as it is.

    If I was an LF/strafe hybrid, i'd be inclined to agree on this point though, as the extra 20 IAS and LL means you can wear that crucial Razortail/TGods.


    This is where i'll agree. I think a character geared to use a BOTD bow could make crucial strength (and even vit) cutbacks that allow Dex to be pumped by 30 or more points over your typical WF build.

    For example a Crusader Bow's requirements drop almost 20 strength (19.4). A Hydra Bow's requirements drop 26 strength (26.8 actually). That's 20-26 strength that can go into dex, which is 20-26 more ed.

    My WF-zon pumped strength to about 120, and vit to 115. If I'd used a BOTD hydra I could have stopped at 100-105 str (Archon Plate) and stopped Vit in the 80's. That's 40 more dex, right there. I could have pared it down further if i'd carefully planned out my +str gear, but I own handily enough with my char as is.


    I think you make a number of very insightful points, though I would assert that a WF can be made just as fast, and most of the "deficiencies" can be made up. I find the knockback on a WF to be extremely helpful as well. I can't imagine any (easily achievable) socket for a WF that is better than a Shael.

    If you want to make a BOTD bow reach 2 frame strafe you'll need 120% IAS, and a BOTD only has a 20 IAS head start. For me, achieving 9/2 strafe is absolutely critical.

    Even high ed% BOTD's top out at 350 max damage. Even taking all the advantages into account, that's 200 less max than a WF (550+) on a level 90-ish char, an advantage that is very hard to catch up on :worship:
     
  12. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    you can make botd in more than just a hydra or crusader ;)

    it's just not worth it... lol BotD long battle bow anyone?

    --fatty
     
  13. Killfrenzy

    Killfrenzy IncGamers Member

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    I'll defend my wf to the end damnit! especially my self found one. I HAVE to make a new 1.10 bowazon just to use this baby
     
  14. jblakely

    jblakely IncGamers Member

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    Don"t get me wrong, I love my WF but the BOTD gives you so much it is hard to ignore its advantages over WF when taken as a package. One equipment slot here, one there, they all add up and in the end the WF zon is very limmited in her build. The WF high damage is without doubt its one advantage but that really kicks in after level 90 and we all know how hard it is to get there these days. The high max is overshadowed by the low min so your average damage increase does not really shine until your mid 90's, not 90-ish. Yes, the WF will always do more damage at high levels but does that slightly higher average damage make up for the other features you are giving up. From maxing pierce to adding + skills, the BOTD allows you to be overall more rounded which makes it much easyer to play all areas of the game. Overall the BOTD just make things easier. It allows you to use less than perfect equipment to achieve the same results. Now most people who can afford a BOTD can afford the equipment to go with a WF, but the WF does make you use those items where the BOTD allows you to be much more flexable.

    I love my WF and when I just want to kill things fast nothing beats it for a zon. But my BOTD character in my opinion is more rounded and can more eaisly played through the game without running into trouble. So I guess in the end it comes down to preferce. If you want to just over power things then the WF is king, but if you enjoy playing through the entire game and facing a variety of monsters that ignore your damage potential then BOTD gives you the opertunity to be more rounded and effective.

    Jack :drink:
     
  15. JohnsonHoward

    JohnsonHoward IncGamers Member

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    yes. wf does the highest dmg among all bows BUT DMG doesnt mean all. botd tho grants u a lot of advantages that wf build can not achieve. both hydra/crusader has the base speed of 10 with 60 IAS for botd, only 30%more ias to reach 9 frame attack rate, but with WF, shaeled, needs 50%.
    as for 8 frame attack rate, 90%ias for botd, as 110% is required for a wf. this 20% grants a great flexiblity in the choice of armor/helm/glove. in my opnion, there is not a all-around build in 1.10 u have to alternate ur style while u play against different opponent in pvp. therefore flexibility plays a big part.
    knockback is considered a bad manner in pvp. but most of the pub duelers use enigma so i dont think knockback is a big deal anymore. wf has dex/knockback advantage where botd has ias/all attribute. wf has high dmg but botd has -enemy def %. which of them is better? i'd say both. in pvp, tho, botd > wf

    howie
     
  16. .EYRIS.ONE.

    .EYRIS.ONE. IncGamers Member

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    BOTD!!!! this bow is soooo cool and fun! it lets you have way more variety in items because of the 60%ias built in so its that much less you need to get to 8fps shooting speed!!! wf = power but slow, botd = less power very fast :D

    peace.
     
  17. Tragics

    Tragics IncGamers Member

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    SHLD I socket my WF with JAH RUNE?

    fun fun. I made a botd hydra bow and i never regretted it. The posion nova is soo cool, 50% chance to cast when you kill an enemy, all the mods are so good and rounded. In fact if you put ur zon with FHR charms and valks and drascul glove, she can stand like a melee character and gun down everyone. ^^

    now, i seen how good eaglehorn and widowmaker is with the ITD. So should I make my WF ITD too? Just to make it even more powerful. ^^
     
  18. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    What the hell? They're both the same base speed bow.

    If you Shael a WF, it's only 20 IAS slower. How the heck do you classify WF as "power but slow"? That's a Buriza!

    A BOTD is _not_ that much faster, people.

    Oh, and don't Jah your bow. Huge, huge waste.
     
  19. jblakely

    jblakely IncGamers Member

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    I agree calling a WF slow or a BOTD fast is stretching it but that 20 ias is still a big factor. To get the WF to only 20 less you have already had to use your weapon socket for sheal losing that to other nice mods. 9 frames will require at least two slots for ias and to get to 8 freams you will have to dedicate your other equipment choices to pure speed. 8 freams is not easy on a WF at anytime and the ability to have one extra equipment slot is huge. The BOTD already gives you many of the other mods that makes life easier for a zon. In addition, you will have at least one more equipment choice avaliable. This will allow you to use atmas for amp or razer tail for pierce.

    So, assuming you are shooting at the same speed it all comes down to the question of wheater the extra damage from the WF is more useful than the mods on the bow and whatever mod you get from that extra equipment slot. And this is only a factor at high levels, over ~90, were the damage increasee really kicks in on the WF. Below that the average damage is not that far off between the bows. The BOTD zon, assuming she was buildt to use the bow, is getting a big kick from the extra dex she recieved from the saving on stat points given to her by the bow and possibly from other equipment filling that open slot. For dueling I would have to say BOTD is the hands down winner everything else being equal. For PvM IMO the BOTD zon is still more rounded but there are areas in the game where the WF shines and the BOTD will come in a distant secound.

    Jack :drink:
     
  20. DoC-Makaveli

    DoC-Makaveli IncGamers Member

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    u cant make a botd bow in a faster bow than hydra/crusader (only 6 sock bows)...

    i get 8 fps with wf with the same equipment I would use whether I was using it or botd... (cats eye + 20 ias glove + ed/ias armor + ed/ias wf + ed/ias helm -- since ed/max jewel doesnt work correctly anyway, what else would I use) -- i could use razortail and still have my 8 fps -- although pierce is useless pvp and atmas is bm...

    8 fps on a wf is VERY EASY!!!!! im looking at this from a pvp point of view... because.. i dont really care about pvm lol... i dont even consider botd to be second (actually i tihnk a rare 300+ ed -10 speed bow is a lot better than both... if only i could get my friend to trade meeeeeeee ahh)
     

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