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Worse PvP system?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by cbr, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. cbr

    cbr IncGamers Member

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    Worse PvP system?

    This is a post by Bashiok on Blizzard forums about health globes. From what he says it seems pots will be on cooldown. Now my question regards HC PvP. If you can't spam rejuvs anymore, how exactly will anyone PvP? Without rejuv spam it's mostly a throw of the dice who wins a duel, the one that makes first hit will probably always win.

    Is this the great new PvP system that's supposed to fix everything the others on this forum are waiting for?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  2. Q33

    Q33 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    I don't play much in Hardcore, so I might have a different perspective, but rejuvs werent allowed in dueling...

    So...according to you, who wins the PvP battle is whoever has more rejuvs? Whatever happened to skill and equipment?



     
  3. cbr

    cbr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Clearly you haven't been playing HC. Only SC would have those crazy rules like no slow or no rej, in the real world there were no such rules. To make the other guy dead you used everything you had.

    You probably didn't see people have that hammer with amp charges on swap either.


     
  4. Q33

    Q33 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Ummm, did you not even read what I wrote...please re-read my first 13 words so you can see i prefaced it with exactly what you managed to conclude. Congrats on that achievement.



     
  5. cbr

    cbr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    I did read your post, but you just used that to take a shot at me free of charge, as if those words protected you from replies. If you have no clue about HC dueling how can you assume you know anything about "skill or equipment"?

    Besides I made this thread mostly for HC, the reason I said SC could be here also is because I forgot of all your silly no rej rule. What were the other rules? No slow and no poison right? I might be wrong on that one.


     
  6. Q33

    Q33 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Ha, yeah I did take a shot at you, but what am I suppose to do when I write a 2 sentence answer, and you ignore 1 of those sentences and act like your "conclusions" invalidate my opinion.

    Im sorry, because I didnt play hardcore, I didnt realize I didnt know anything about skills or equipment. Those clearly are not present in softcore. I'll leave this thread now.

    Edit: Now that you do remember some of our crazy rules, maybe you should edit your original thread saying that SC opinions were wanted too.



     
  7. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    There were a lot of different rules that people followed. No one every really agreed on them. If potions are on a cool down then yes, you won't be able to duel by spamming full juvs. In Diablo 2 HC Pkers are built with the biggest damage possible to overcome juv spam. You're just going to have to build your characters differently. There will still be glass cannons of course, but I expect that people will design some chars that sacrifice damage in order to tank a few hits. Remember, synergies might not be in the game, and giant 1-hit kill attacks might be very rare. Honestly, SC pkers have been dueling without health pots for years, HC will just have to get used to a new system. You might even like it.
     
  8. cbr

    cbr IncGamers Member

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    You're right. I did edit it.

    You're hilarious, I start a thread and you take what you think is a free shot at me and when I reply you get all emo. Please have something to add to the thread next time. Thanks.

    SC duelers also get their bodies back, I won't.

    I fully expect some full vita duel strats to pop up, but if you take for example bvb all you need is a lucky WW zerk zerk, you might pop a rej after the first zerk but the second one will take your around 1/3rd life. Unless you have a high LL build you'll be pretty much dead on the next hit.


     
  9. HappyAssassin

    HappyAssassin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Yeah, duels will be short in HC provided the damage scale is the same. You never know, stats like leach, HP, AC and blocking might play a bigger role in PvP. Then again, given what blizzard has hinted about griefing, it's entirely possible that there will be no Hardcore PK in the first place, just voluntary softcore PvP.
     
  10. Uncle_Mike

    Uncle_Mike D2 PvP Moderator

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    you on the other hand are far from hilarious.

    3 day temp ban for flaming and personal attacks. It would also be nice if you read the forum rules by the time you come back. As usual, if you decide to create another account during the 3 day ban period you will be banned permanently.



     
  11. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    I'm interested to see what kind of system will evolve for HC duelling. If pots are indeed on a timed basis, we might see a differentiation in combat tactics. Depends on the HP/damage ratios of course, but HC duelling might well be messier than it is, or be more focussed on defense and less on damage dealing. After all, if you deal enough damage to merely injure the opponent whilst he dishes out less, but more than what you can rejuv, he will win. Big bruisers with no capacity to take the punishment might evolve out. Then again, bigger bruisers who cause a LOT of damage might also be interesting. We'll just have to wait and see :)



    Within DII it is essential to use the rejuvs at the right time in order to survive longer than your opponent. As for that difference between HC and SC... just imagine you have about ten times as many hitpoints as in SC (16 fulls, usually potted at about 1/4th depending on the damage done by the opponent, averages out at about 10 times as much hp). Oh, and you are dead permanently. ;)

    @HappyAssassin
    Lets hope we do get a HC PvP system. PK and PvP are not the same, after all (and lets NOT open up that can of worms again ;) ) Duelling is a lot of fun. Armed to the teeth, with some insane build, plenty of amusement.
     
  12. Skilgannon

    Skilgannon Banned

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    I've only ever PvM'd in HC, so this "spam rejuvs" comes as a suprise to me. I always thought using potions in a duel is lame. I mean sure, if someones trying PK you then spam away, but if youre challenging someone, or being challenged and you accept, youre basically saying "yer, i can whoop your ***", not "yer, i have more rejuvs than you"

    I used to PvP alot in SC, and it irked me with the so called bad manners rules. eg. no poison, no slow, no knockback, no absorb etc. Rules i hasten to add, which no doubt would have been decided on by someone who thought they were invincible, who then lost an ear to a poison/slow/knockback/lightning bowa :p

    The potion "rules" in softcore, as far as i'm aware, say that mana pots are ok, but no healing or rejuvs. This i cant comprehend. Surely thats like saying, an assa cant use Claw Block skill, but everyone can use a shield. But then theres alot of things in PvP now that i dont comprehend. I mean, whats so fun about spamming tele/blessed hammer trying to catch someone else spamming tele?

    To me, PvP has always been about who's char was built better, and what items you chose to use. no pots, and no town running/save & exit when you know youre beat. Basically a test of your skills. Not a test of how many rejuvs youre carrying. (16 in a belt, 40 in an invent. Damn but that would be boring!)

    Anyway, i digress. . .

    I like the idea of PKing (legit of course) in HC, but the current "exit when critical" mentality makes it seem a fruitless activity. If there was a way of ensuring you cant tp or save and exit, or at least there was a substantial delay (so people who dont want to duel dont have to) i'd love it. You could actually hunt people properly. There would be a point in the duel where your opponent would know that they cant win, or in turn, YOU realise you cant win. No save & exit to help you, youre doomed! Do you fight on? or try to run? Ah but i'd like that :p
     
  13. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Well, the same goes for HC duelling. As I said, essentially you duel with more HP', so the effects of better gear and /or skilling are more pronounced, but you also must learn to time juvies. Someone who carries an inventory full of juves is dead meat, by the way. Charms >>>> juvies. You must realize that whilst the penalty for death in SC in a duel is merely a few insults, in HC you loose your character. Therefore, everything goes, and everything is full rejuvs. But the HC vs SC duelling differences is another debate, and neither way is better or worse than the other.

    Townrunning is frowned upon in HC. In all fairness though, if someone expends all his 16 juvs and then tries to make it to town alive if he still cannot win, I don't blame him. Save/exit is rude, but also not uncommon. If the difference is so large it is obvious who is going to win the fight and items are hard to come by, save& exit is not really bad either. Its bad form, yes, but one can hardly be blamed for saving life and limb, especially whe one is out of juves and obviously outmatched. Both townrunning and save/exit are signs of a defeat and are clearly recognized in HC duelling as such. I prefer to fight to the death though, as that's the way I like it. There is no honor in running away , I'd rather fight untill the ear drops.

    It gets ridiculous when you fight chickenhackers who have their hack set at 50% health. Once they drop beow 50% they automaticall S&E, and then re-enter, insult you, heal up, and try again. Those people are just.. impossible. No fun.
     
  14. mince pies

    mince pies IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    I think that potions should be removed completely from SC and should be scarce in HC for obvious reasons. I also believe that someone shouldn't be able to hostile you unless both players are in the respective acts' towns. So, for example, if you were doing a Baal run and a high level PKer joined a game, they wouldn't be able to hostile you unless you were in town too.
     
  15. Durin

    Durin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    That will not be the case in Diablo3 because they will normalize dmg/hp. I think pvp for Diablo3 is very promising, in the beginning I doubted it because I thought it will be the same as in D2 which would suck definitely.

    I mean in D2 even the rejuvs can't help you, it's way too unbalanced. With necro and assassin you can't do sh*t in pvp. While stupid pala can rape all classes.
    Yeah I know you can fool pala with necro if the pala is noob, but in good pvp duel you can't do sh*t against him.


     
  16. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    No, cool down on potions will open more options to skill usage and actual tactics, you don't have to stand like an idiot infront of your enemy bashing the attack button and waiting for the potion cool down to spam more potions .. that's just stupid.

    Move .. dodge ... whatever ... there will be many escape skills in D3 .. use the time to dodge your enemies attacks and use few ranged skills ( which all classes seem to have ) before engagning in close combat again or using potions ( after the cool down is over ).

    To cut it short ... i'm glad .. very glad they did put a cool down on potions ... now PvP in both SC and HC will really be a match of true wits and skills .. not some cheap potion or rejuv spam match.
     
  17. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    With only consensual pvp being in the game (PK is dead) I doubt that you will be able to actually kill someone's character, it will probably be like WOW where you can take down someone's hp to 1 when you win the battle, otherwise noone will want to PVP at all in HC and playing HC will be like playing the game without the PVP options because noone will risk their characters for a stupid duel.

    I really doubt that there is a chance to kill someone's character, it made sense for PKing but not in consensual pvp.
     
  18. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    Hmmm ... good point ... but there are ways to make people fight consensual duels even in HC, how about giving them an incentive. :yes:

    Like something more valuable than "ears", maybe a chance for the victor to pick up one item from the items the defeated is wearing ... sounds like a good motive to fight duels even in HC.


     
  19. AkumaSlayer

    AkumaSlayer Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    In hc the defeated will be deceased, so you may as well get to collect all their gear.

    Maybe there could be trade option for non hc players where each player could decide upon a suitable item as a reward. I guess it could work like a regular trade except after the trade is made you don't get the item until after you kill the opponent.
     
  20. Kiroptus

    Kiroptus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Worse PvP system?

    You guys are on high if you think anyone will risk their character's life in a duel for an item. Even if its super uber mega item, people wont bother the risk of 50% chance of losing their character in a HC duel, it wont happen no matter how many incentives are thrown to make people do it.

    This is insane, no one will care for a sadistic trader that wants the possibility of taking your character's life for a item, I would simply look somewhere else where I would certainly find someone that wants to trade an item for an item and not an item for all the hours I spent on my character.
     

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