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wondering about skill invest for light sorc

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Perel, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. Perel

    Perel Diabloii.Net Member

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    wondering about skill invest for light sorc

    i have 20 on the 4 lightning skillz ... 1 on the mana shield...
    but what about worth... how much should i put?...
    is 1 on mana shield good enough?
     
  2. Jek

    Jek Diabloii.Net Member

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    Mana shield is kind of bad without the synergy...
     
  3. Perel

    Perel Diabloii.Net Member

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    i will put 1 on telekinesis too ^^
    can anyone tell me
    how much obsorb for what lvl does the mana shield do
    and how much warmth too for what lvl..
    thx
     
  4. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    you will need 20 on telekiness if ur going to use energy shield.

    Maxium is 95% (at lvl40)
     
  5. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just for curious, I got the following # for you:

    Lvl 57 Warmth gives you mana recovery 702%
    Lvl 17 Med from Insight gives you and nearby party members 700% mana recovery


    If you have lots of mana and very fast mana recovery, lvl 1 mana shield is NOT a bad investment at all, regardless of how many skill pts you put in telekinesis.


    You can get lots of mana with the help of +mana items, +mana% items, high-lvl BO, stat pts, and +energy items.

    You can get amazing mana recovery with the help of paladin's med aura, Insight, high-level warmth, and +mana regen items.

    If you have 2000-3000 mana with ~1000% mana regen rate and if you still have trouble with your base-lvl mana shield (=lvl ~20 with gear), you'd be even more troublesome without the mana absorb (= probably died already), right?
     
  6. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    then he can just go with ES sorc build, is way better just putting 1 pt in es and losing too much mana when dueling.

    95% > 70%.
     
  7. Perel

    Perel Diabloii.Net Member

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    i have read that in a thread :

    "Q. So what does Energy Shield do for us?
    A. Energy Shield redirects a % of damage taken to mana instead of life. The % absorb reaches its peak at 95% at skill level (slvl.) 40.

    Q. Does Energy Shield have any synergies?
    A. Energy Shield has one synergy, telekinesis (TK).

    Q. How does TK help energy shield?
    A. Without TK the damage taken while using ES will be 2 points of mana for every 1 point of damage. Every point in TK lowers damage to mana that is taken by 6.25%. With 20 points invested into TK the factor at which damage is taken to mana is 0.75 for every one point lost. This of course is much better than our previous 2:1 ratio.

    Q. So if I put more points into TK I can lower the damage I take even more?
    A. No, only actual points placed in TK will lower the damage. So after slvl. 20 extra points don’t mean anything.

    it says only 1 point in tk is necessery...
     
  8. Ankeli

    Ankeli Diabloii.Net Member

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    unless you are hc/base vita i wouldnt necessarily bother with maxed tk either. maybe 8-9(?) points for the 50% reducement in the mana eating.
     
  9. sasja

    sasja Diabloii.Net Member

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    I disagree - or at least, I'd only use that shield on very special occasions. The reason is, as I'm sure you know, that Energy Shield is applied before resistance. So if you normally have 75% lightning resistance and you take 1000 lightning damage (say from a pack of souls), your health takes a 250 damage hit if you don't use Energy shield. If you do use energy shield, say at level 15 meaning 69% absorption with no TK, you'll lose

    1000 * 0.69 * 2 = 1380 mana (and 1000 * 0.21 * 0.25 = 53 health)

    I think the mana pool you need to have to prefer a 1380 mana hit to losing 197 health is so big it's not really recommended. I'd never take Energy Shield without maxing TK.
     
  10. Jek

    Jek Diabloii.Net Member

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    Sure, but you'll lose over twice as much mana as someone with maxed TK..
     
  11. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    remember, es factors before resistance and pdr. the forrmula is this:
    dmg x pvp pentaly x (2-0.625(tek lvl)

    lets take a 12k fireball for example
    lvl 20 tek 12000 x .17 x (2-0.0625x20) = 1530 dmg to mana
    lvl 1 tek 12000 x .17 x (2-0.0625x1) = 3952 dmg to mana

    So lvl 20 tek does really help.
     
  12. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava Diabloii.Net Member

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    You actually only proved that lvl 1 ES with base TK may not be a very good investment to a sorc who does not have tons of mana / fast mana recovery.


    However, with a sorc who has truly tons of mana / fast mana recovery, even mana burn can only cause a very brief pause before she gets enough mana (~10 or less) to tele away.

    A smart enough sorc should, and will, mainly use lvl1 ES/base TK in places where most attacks she may very well take are physical, poison, or magical, or when and only when she has very poor resists to the damage of major attacks she expects to take.


    Let's use your example:

    ofc, if this sorc has 75% resist to L, 1000 lightening dmg can only drop up to 250 hit points without ES. But if this damage is physical and has actually reached the sorc, without ES it will drop the sorc's life by 500 to 1000 depending on the sorc's PDR.

    if the sorc's damage resist is 0 and has 1000 or less hit points, 1000 damage (no matter what type this damage is) will kill the sorc right away!

    but with even lvl 1 ES (with whichever lvl of TK), the sorc will survive, - as long as ES can work against that type of damage. And if she has truly tons of mana and amazing mana recovery (just as I assumed in the statement you commented on), she will not only survive, but will alos be able to tele away or do something useful after taking the entire 1000 damage.

    That's the beauty of lvl 1 ES!



    Certainly, if you want to use ES everywhere for all the time, especially if your sorc does not have truly tons of mana / fast mana recovery, your sorc would be better off if she tries to put more pts in TK.


    Anyway, the conclusion is:

    Level 1 ES is NOT a bad investment to a sorc who has tons of mana and very fast mana recovery, no matter how many skill points she has put, or plans to put, in TK.


    Edit:
    1- fixed an inaccurate statement.
    2- note the fact: you can always get ES up by using a right weapon, though its absorb level may be too low to be useful.
     
  13. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    but then u will lose more life.

    let take the 12k fireball as example again (with 75res)


    lvl1 ES- 12000 x .17 x (1-.75) x (1-.6) = 204 dmg to life
    lvl40 ES- 120000 x .17 x (1-.75) x (1-.9) = 51 dmg to life

    204 and 51 is a lot of difference.
     
  14. HCTwinJava

    HCTwinJava Diabloii.Net Member

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    Did I say/write anything that is contradictory to your point?

    1) lvl 40 ES is better than lvl 1 ES in some way - you just showed that. Well, 40 is not needed to show that. lvl 2 ES is somewhat better than lvl 1 ES too.

    2) Without ES, 12K raw damage with 75% resist (assume net dmg reduce from other sources = 0) yields 12K * 25% = 3K net loss of hit points. In this case, any sorc without 3001 or more hit points dies under 1 hit of FB.

    3) Based on your own calculation (and your assumptions for the calc that you did not state), lvl 1 ES allows the sorc to survive 1 hit of FB so long as she has 205 or more hit points.

    In this case, if this sorc has 3001 hit points, lvl 1 ES can theoretically allow her to survive 14 12K FB's without dying, as long as she's got enough mana and enough time to replenish her mana pool.


    4) As you see, 2) and 3) have just demonstrated the beauty of lvl 1 ES again.


    Certainly, to enjoy the beauty of ES, you'll need to bear the cost of using ES. 20 TK is NOT ALWAYS necessary to make a decent sorc afford the cost and enjoy the beauty of ES at least to some extent.
     
  15. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    i got ur point here. The problem is u cannot achieve high life and high mana at the same. If u got 3k life, then ur mana will certainly be low, around 900-1200. If u have high mana, then u will have low life. (both are after cta) Survive one fireball doesnt mean anything if the sorc cant go for the offense/strong defense, (no mana) then people continue hitting u and ur dead as well.

    Perel: If u want to go with es, i suggest u max out tek and achieve at least lvl30 es. (prebuffing gears include) Because if u want to use es and only want to use for base, then is not worthy tp spend those precious skill pts on the prerequsite. IMO, if ur not using es, then go for more dmg and max out the syngery to all the lighting skills. In pvp, a lvl 1 tek and lvl 1 es will give u more trouble cuz u will lose tons of mana AND life at the same time. If ur not using es, then only life will be lost and those can be convert to mana if ur using dmg to mana gear. ES will negate the dm and make ur mana loses even more. So i suggest u either go with pure lighting or the es route.

    Very simple, take my fireball example again:

    when a 12k fireball hit u, (with 75res) u will lose: (lvl1 tek and lvl9es)

    204life and 3952 mana per ball, simple as that. U lose tons of mana and u wont be able to cast spell or tele. Then ur dead for certain.

    But with a lvl20 tek and lvl40 es:

    u only lose 51life and 1530mana when a 12k fireball hits u, which means u dont have to watch ur life literally so u can focus on mana so ur es wont break easily.

    U will die without ur es and u certainly want to make it stronger, so ppl wont break through it easily.
     
  16. Perel

    Perel Diabloii.Net Member

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    how does maxing tk help energy shield... it is said that only 1 point in telekinesis helps energy shield ... doesnt it?
     
  17. sasja

    sasja Diabloii.Net Member

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    No, each hard skill point you put in TK helps your Energy Shield - check out the guide in the stickies.
     

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