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Wolfbarb and Beast

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Mostly_Harmless, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. Mostly_Harmless

    Mostly_Harmless IncGamers Member

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    Wolfbarb and Beast

    I built a wolfbarb a while ago for council running. (Aside: I actually built a WW barb, but discovered halfway through hell that I hate WW, so I respeced to a wolfbarb and had way more fun.) With Grief, Fortitude, LoH, Goreriders and Highlords he pretty much just mows through non-bosses, but I still haven't entirely settled on an offhand weapon.

    I started off using a shield, but his block animation was aggravatingly slow. I suspect that wolves should never use shields (well, maybe if they have low block % and base dex). Anyways, I then tried Heart of the Oak. The resists and skills are quite nice, but my HotO is in an ethereal flail and I kept getting paranoid that I'd accidentally swing with it instead of the Grief. I finally settled on a Silence BA. It has massive resists, which aren't terribly necessary but free up some charm space, and +2 skills to pump up the Feral Rage and various passives a bit. I like this option a lot, but I've been looking for a more powerful offensive option (since he's already built like a brick).

    So here's my question: Will Beast be useful? I have three Sur's (from 1.12 and 1.13 LK) that I was saving for Enigma, but this guy is a pretty good rune finder, so I wouldn't mind terribly if I spent two on him. Obviously, the ED from Fanaticism will be good, and I think the AR will just about cancel out the charms I have to spend on resists (although I haven't really checked too carefully). I still can't tell, though, if Fanaticism will change my attack speed at all in wereform. I understand how WIAS and OIAS work, but I've never used Fanaticism before. (In fact, as far as my searches can tell, not many people have ever used it with wolves before. Maybe that's a clue.) Does the SIAS from Fanaticism have a noticeable effect on wereform attack rates? In particular, if anyone knows how to calculate it, will it change my attack rate (37% Grief if it matters, and I'd love to know how you calculate it)? It would also help my merc, but that's mostly just important when Vilehand (or whatever his name is) is PI. Otherwise, I tend to move so much faster than the merc that he gets left behind. (I suppose it might be better to pop in and out of the durance to collect him.)

    Tl;Dr: Will Beast make a big difference for the wolfbarb? Will it make a big difference for the merc? In your opinion, is this (plus some cool random new classes) worth delaying Enigma for a while?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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  3. jdkerr

    jdkerr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    According to my memory, it won't make a difference. According to the calculator SnickerSnack provided, it won't make a difference.

    I <3 Wolfbarbs

    For the offhand weapon:
    "Beast" gives 80% AR, 186% ED, and 25-40 str
    "Silence" gives +2 skills, 75 res all, 20% FHR, and 30% MF
    Crainte Vomir gives 20% FRW, 10% DR, and 1 socket
    Azurewrath gives +1 skills, +5-10 attributes, Sanctuary, and 1 socket
    Blade Of Ali Baba gives ~225% GF, ~90% MF, and 2 sockets

    If your damage is insufficient, Beast is best. If resists are important, Silence makes sense. If PIs are a problem, Azurewrath is your answer. If none of those are the case, Crainte Vomir offers FRW and DR while Ali Baba offers MF (a straight 150% jump if you use Ist runes in it).

    You might also consider Tomb Reaver, although I am sure you have already.
     
  4. Mostly_Harmless

    Mostly_Harmless IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    Thanks for the link! I feel a little stupid, because I looked at that calculator before posting but I didn't notice the wereform dropdown, so I couldn't find the feral rage attack rate. Interestingly, Beast does prevent me from losing a frame when decrepified, so it might be handy for Baal runs.

    @jdkerr: How have I never noticed the stats on Cranite Vomir? That's a pretty awesome offhand weapon (although it's really sad that Wind is worse). I think an Ist CV might be a pretty good balance of speed, MF and survival. Now I have to figure out how the diminishing returns on r/w speed work, since I've been dumping spare points into Increased Speed.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sanctuary only works on undead, so it won't help much in Travincal?

    I would certainly consider Tomb Reaver if I owned one. I think I'll stick with Silence for Trav runs (mostly so that my resists are still great while under conviction), but I'm torn between Beast, CV and BoAB for Baal runs. Any recommendations? I plan on testing the two I have, and I may well make Beast and try it out too.

    Edit: I <3 wolfbarbs too! =)
     
  5. Tupsi

    Tupsi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    I never posted an ISO on the trade forums but I made this table to help evaluating items. It's based on wolfbarb's life after BO+WW.

    1 life = 1 point
    1%ED = 2 points
    1% FHR = 4 points
    1% all res = 4 points
    1% of fire/light/cold res = 1,33 points
    1 DEX = 4 points
    1 VITA = 0,31 points
    1 STR = 6 points (2 points if it's in a jewel that also has -15% requirements)
    -15% requirements = 38 points (jewels only)

    I can't get Beast which is my choice number one, so I try to find the item with the highest score. I ended up with Blackoak Shield, but now that I'm writing this in public, I question my choice. It just looks bad :D Maybe I should take another look at the other options...

    Blackoak Shield
    Defense: 322-372 (varies)(Base Defense: 108-123)
    Required Level: 61
    Required Strength: 100
    Chance to Block: Pal: 50%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 45%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 40%
    Paladin Smite Damage: 17 To 29
    Durability: 129
    +160-200% Enhanced Defense (varies)
    + (0.625 Per Character Level) +0-61 Absorb Cold Damage (Based On Character Level)
    + (1.25 Per Character Level) +1-123 To Life (Based On Character Level)
    + (0.5 Per Character Level) +0-49 To Dexterity (Based On Character Level)
    +50% Faster Block Rate
    +4% Chance To Cast Level 5 Weaken When Struck
    Half Freeze Duration
    (Only Spawns In Patch 1.10 or later)

    5 frame block doesn't bother me like 6 or 7 frame blocks did so I settled with that. I didn't go for max block because I thought life is more important in PvM. I have to have 136 dexterity. If it gives me a chance to block some damage, I'm fine with that. I lose a few frames but this way I make some use for the spent dexterity points.
     
  6. jdkerr

    jdkerr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    The diminishing returns are calculated separately for item-based FRW and skill-based FRW (and I am not actually sure there are diminishing returns for skill-based FRW). At any rate, the points you put into Increased Speed won't make Cranite Vomir any less effective, but it's boost will be more noticeable if you have less item-based FRW elsewhere.

    I have no idea what to recommend without knowing the rest of your gear. If you can take care of your fire and lightning resists without Silence, I would go with CV or BoAB. Try them both and see if the DR/FRW makes enough of a difference to lose the MF. I would not do Beast because it would not make enough of a difference to justify the runes -- I would be saving up for Enigma. :whistling:


     
  7. naranjadita

    naranjadita IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    Speaking of low block shields.

    Speaking of a second weapon. You have ~500% off-weapon ED, and ~550% ED to demons (total more than 1k%). Do you really need 186% more?
    For council, you don't.
    For all other areas (Chaos, AT, Baal, etc) - Lawbringer or Azurewrath are better.
    And do you really need to have overstacked elemental resistances on a character with ~30% LL and 5k+ life?
     
  8. SnickerSnack

    SnickerSnack IncGamers Member

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    Re: Wolfbarb and Beast

    Have you considered a spirit shield? Skills, resists, vitality, mana, fhr, middish blocking.

    Also, iirc, there's a shield with 20% Deadly Strike which might improve your damage a fair amount.

    edit:

    Defense: 134-173 (varies)(Base Defense: 58-78)
    Required Level: 35
    Required Strength: 65
    Chance to Block: Pal: 47%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 42%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 37%
    Durability: 55
    Paladin Smite Damage: 18 To 35
    +70-120% Enhanced Defense (varies)
    15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
    30% Faster Hit Recovery
    20% Deadly Strike
    +50 To Life
    Attacker Takes Damage of 47
     

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