Will be PK possible in D3?

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Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Doppel, a lot of what I said definitely was pretty obvious. That doesn't mean people should ignore the facts.
 
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Option implies consent. The hostility as known in Diablo 2 was a feature, not an option. I call it a feature because the mechanic forces action on an opposing party. I have already expressed my consent for consensual dueling in the campaign - it is "PKing" that I have contempt for.

As such, this feature harms the community as it forces a player to act a certain way based on the action of another.
So obviously you have no idea what you are talking about as this is completely invalid.

Read my essay and you will understand the implementation of the feature and option doesn't force ANYONE into ANYTHING. ONLY, allows those players who want the option turned on FOR THEIR GAMES to be turned on.

Also, if you read the thread "A Debate on Friendly Fire" you will see that only one sound argument has been put against it and it was a matter of opinion and I already stated how this would be worked around for that particular situation as in game, after ff for the game has been turned on, each individual player will have the option to turn on or off FF for their own personal character.

SO ANY arguments against this option can almost immediately be considered invalid. BUT, I am still waiting for one solid argument against it.

Also, to quote you again with more focus..

As such, this feature harms the community as it forces a player to act a certain way based on the action of another.
NOT having such a feature harms the community as it forces players to act a certain way based on the actions of others.

Example: We want an option, you don't want an option.

This is the exact definition of force. No option.

I would also like to point out that the tally right now stands at roughly 50% pro-PK and 50% anti-PK at a total of 30 votes, 17/13 against PK.


 

Turnip

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Those votes dont count narrow minded people who are only focusing on people pking them, in the end the open-pvp games with dominate the non-pvp, in private games at the very least. I could see a lot of "wtf joe you disabled pvp!" going on.
 
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Those votes dont count narrow minded people who are only focusing on people pking them, in the end the open-pvp games with dominate the non-pvp, in private games at the very least. I could see a lot of "wtf joe you disabled pvp!" going on.
I believe this is true but my point was merely that this IDEA that pk is a 5% or less of the community is completely invalid. When I was in high school people couldn't stop talking about it. Not just that but it was greatly endorsed by the community up until some 2008.


 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Of course it's incorrect. Pkers make up less than 1%.
 

Razor Spine

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

I believe this is true but my point was merely that this IDEA that pk is a 5% or less of the community is completely invalid. When I was in high school people couldn't stop talking about it. Not just that but it was greatly endorsed by the community up until some 2008.
I am disappoint.

Diablo 2 and Lord of Destruction were not even designed for PvP and PK in the first place, the feature was more of an afterthought than anything else.

There are more ways to grief than PKing true, but people generally get REALLY irritated at random jerks who try to kill them for no apparent reason more than at ninja looters.

And one more thing; a shiny toy will keep its gloss only so long as it remains shiny. When the gloss wears off, it's consigned to the rubbish heap. And when the toy's design wasn't perfect in the first place, people catch on to it much faster. The end.


 
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

And one more thing; a shiny toy will keep its gloss only so long as it remains shiny. When the gloss wears off, it's consigned to the rubbish heap. And when the toy's design wasn't perfect in the first place, people catch on to it much faster. The end.

Unless it was your favorite toy then you would keep it even if all the paint rubbed away with the gloss, as this is the case.


 

niesent

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

again another thread of evidence that no pk > pro pk. You weasels will always be in the minority. This is diablo 3, not diablo 2.5. If y'all don't like it don't buy it. We'd much rather not have you delusional immature children playing with us anyways.
 

Zorrah

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

In all honesty, I can see how a PvP game can outlast a PvE game. However, having a PvE preference myself, my solution has been make Arenas not suck. It seems like one of their premises that the PK crowd holds onto is Arenas suck. That honestly does go a long way to convince me they are more interested in griefing than actual PvP. However, with the premise arenas suck, I also must say, this isn't WoW either. Although, I did vote yay in favor of an option for "open" pvp, but again, it needs stringent requirements and to be hacker proof.
 
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

In all honesty, I can see how a PvP game can outlast a PvE game. However, having a PvE preference myself, my solution has been make Arenas not suck. It seems like one of their premises that the PK crowd holds onto is Arenas suck. That honestly does go a long way to convince me they are more interested in griefing than actual PvP. However, with the premise arenas suck, I also must say, this isn't WoW either. Although, I did vote yay in favor of an option for "open" pvp, but again, it needs stringent requirements and to be hacker proof.
Well, thank you for voting in favor of the option but I don't think arenas will be so bad. As for people who are making claims that Arenas suck, this comes from WoW arenas which do suck. I, although, believe D3 Arenas will be freaking awesome and fun, but arenas don't allow for open pvp through-out the entire instance and during fights with monsters(as of yet).

If arenas were more expansive, with levels(height), traps, option for NO PICK-UPS and power-ups, and monsters that (could) come from holes or gates like a gladiator arena, then that would just make them that much more awesome but still wouldn't be the same as an option for FF. As FF would just do exactly as it says and only that, enable teammate damage.

See the problem is too many people can't see past the trolls when someone with legitimate claims and reason comes to the table. I ask for something I enjoyed and you get angry as if I just shat in your shoes. I didn't say you had to join my games but at least allow me (and players like me) to make the game I want to join.

I am not a troll but its people like the ones on this forum that just make me lose it and want to lash out against them for completely illogical statements when perfectly sound reason could be used.


 

Nizaris

Clan Officer - US West Hardcore
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

So obviously you have no idea what you are talking about as this is completely invalid.

Read my essay and you will understand the implementation of the feature and option doesn't force ANYONE into ANYTHING. ONLY, allows those players who want the option turned on FOR THEIR GAMES to be turned on.

Also, if you read the thread "A Debate on Friendly Fire" you will see that only one sound argument has been put against it and it was a matter of opinion and I already stated how this would be worked around for that particular situation as in game, after ff for the game has been turned on, each individual player will have the option to turn on or off FF for their own personal character.

SO ANY arguments against this option can almost immediately be considered invalid. BUT, I am still waiting for one solid argument against it.

Also, to quote you again with more focus..
Obviously you need to learn how to read. Not only was my post not in direct response to your essay, it was in reference to the hostility feature in Diablo 2. Furthermore, what you deem as a "sound argument" is purely based on your perspective, as you have no gleaned fact, source material, or cross-referencing.

In fact, I render your entire essay moot on level of academia. I both agree and disagree with parts of your logic in your essay, but I certainly wasn't responding to it.

LOLCarebearsLOL said:
NOT having such a feature harms the community as it forces players to act a certain way based on the actions of others.
What in the world are you talking about? The absence of a feature forces people act a certain way? You mean... it forces them to be unable to force another into acting? I think you need to check your logic.

LOLCarebearsLOL said:
Example: We want an option, you don't want an option.

This is the exact definition of force. No option.
Actually, this is the exact definition of force:

The Free Dictionary said:
Force: To compel through pressure or necessity
Let us juxtapose this with the definition of option:

The Free Dictionary said:
Option: The power or freedom to choose.
I think these definitions justify every aspect of my argument in concordance with my observations of Blizzard's actions. And... since it seems like you completely missed what I was saying, since I have already stated that I would agree to optional consensual dueling, and am talking against the feature as exhibited in Diablo 2, let me re-iterate what you so woefully missed in your haste.

Harm to a gaming community is something to be avoided. Known features (or options even) which cause harm to a majority of the community will not be fostered or encouraged by Blizzard. PKing is an identified feature that caused harm to the a vast majority of the community. They left PK out of Diablo 3. I agree with this move and the motives behind it.

You cannot argue with this. Well, you can. It will be a waste of your time and my time. What I am saying is iron-clad fact as it is based on real action. I hope with this clarification you can truly understand the meaning and foundation for my perspective, along with the logic and fact that underlies it.

In addition, your census data from this poll cannot even be a justifiable source as it is from a concentrated user-base, not to mention an easily exploitable survey. If you're going for academic merit, this is not the place to do it.

NOTE: Please read all aspects of an argument before responding. It truly makes you look like a fool when you re-cast base definitions and fill in the blanks with assumption.

Honestly, if you're just trying to cover for Doppel's blatant immaturity, don't stoop to his level. Please.

EDIT: I'd also like to point out that your other poll's results should not be added to this one. They are completely different subjects, with a light cross-over with its import within the game. I would not make the votes interchangeable or additive.


 
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Idaell

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

I never did any PvP dueling in Diablo 2. Nor do I ever remember being griefed. This was because I played single player for a long time until I got the internet, and even then I mainly played private games with known friends. There were some times that I played with people I did not know on Battlenet but they seemed to be primarily interested in rushing over fighting each other.

I can only imagine two types of open world PvP. One is dueling (including groups) where players go hostile at a distance in a safe area and knowingly attack each other trying to prove who is best. Dueling seems to be exactly what the arena seems to be doing, even allowing for larger number of players than in the normal game. The other type of PvP is hunting where players attack each other in a possibly dangerous environment with monsters still around. You could track someone down and wait until they are surrounded by monsters or even just attack when they are least suspecting, with their guard down. Without mutual consent to PvP the hunting style would be a large source of griefing.

However, hunting could be a cool and fun type of game play but it seems that the game would need to be focused toward it. If it was it would need to be a huge environment with mmorpg amounts of players, a completely different game (World of Sanctuary?). Otherwise it is just one or two players hunting down the other two players in the game, the numbers seem too small to really make it a hunt. Blizzard is not trying to make Diablo 3 PvP hunting focused; they are doing all they can to promote all the players working together. A decision I am glad for but obviously not everyone agrees.

I really like the idea of arenas, and it may be the only way to get me to do any PvP at all. Dueling in the normal game seems to have less potential than arenas. Arena battles should be quick to set up and have more people to choose to fight than the other 3 players in normal world PvP. I just wish they figured out a way to implement gold based gambling in arenas. Hopefully there would still be plenty of non-gambling players so it would not be required. Maybe they could preserve non-gambling games by having arena battles against random opponents not include gambling but when playing against a specific known opponent you could choose to include it?

If they allowed dueling in the normal game it could become a hastle for the other players trying to PvE. Due to balancing, the game could be very difficult to play without the missing players, or even lead to circumstances where the non-duelers are deeper into game than those who decide to duel, maybe with the duelers missing quest events. I understand dueling can be quick but Blizzard does seem to be trying to minimize all distractions from good old monster killing. Even the crafting system is more like an upgradable store than conventional crafting seen in other games. I do not necessarily think that PvP should be removed from the normal game, but I can see how it could hinder the game play Blizzard is trying to focus the game on. Maybe everyone in the game would want to duel but it seems that going to an arena would be best for that. Though it could be frustrating if you merely wanted to fight each other and then go back to questing without having to restart.
 

Turnip

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Plus you forget the fact an option to make pvp available in a normal game does not remove arenas, and it does not remove a way to focus the game entirely on pvm for people that want that. Its sort of a non-arguement in the first place, I dont even understand how it got to this many pages.
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

...And where did anyone say it removes arenas, and removes PvM?


Anyway, it got to this many because some people don't understand the word "no". Worse, they don't even know the word "PK", which was even clarified in the OP.
 

Turnip

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Well I guess we will be fighting against keeping hardcore in the game next huh, I hope you have a better arguement than "no" next time though.
 

Kiroptus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Hardcore doesnt force anyone into its gameplay. Its an option by the players not an imposition. The PK system was a imposition, one the most players affected by it hated this.

There is no point bringing this up again, not even as a option because it creates extra and unnecessary game filter options, if you want open PvP world you can achieve the same with a mutual agreement PvP system that can be up on all games.

If you are not happy with that its because you wanted to ruin other people's gameplay by imposing your will on them which is the pure definition on the PK system on D2 which people know and nobody is missing them.
 
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

This is going to be my last post, this is not about pvp/pk or your guys overly opinionated ideas of such but the fact that you guys don't make sense and the reason for my being upset about all this..




Hardcore doesnt force anyone into its gameplay. Its an option by the players not an imposition. The PK system was a imposition, one the most players affected by it hated this.
This is not about a PK system, its about an option for FF. (These two posts within this thread specifically) You even state that HC is an option and not an imposition.

There is no point bringing this up again, not even as a option because it creates extra and unnecessary game filter options,

Then you directly contradict yourself, saying an option should not be allowed, yet your first argument was that its not an option, but it is an option so it cannot create imposition, also this is not about PVP/PK is about an option for FF. How many times must I state that this and that are not the same.

THEN ON TOP OF THIS, you say:

if you want open PvP world you can achieve the same with a mutual agreement PvP system that can be up on all games.
So you want an option to pvp freely during game, something I didn't ask for, in replace of an option during game creation to allow what can be used for the same thing? Also, mine idea is safer against hackers rather then your idea that can be easily exploited as I said. Besides, a mutual pvp option would just then take both players to the arena anyway so whats your point?


If you are not happy with that its because you wanted to ruin other people's gameplay by imposing your will on them which is the pure definition on the PK system on D2 which people know and nobody is missing them.
[/QUOTE]

And now for the reason for me being upset is you all throw assumptions on me that I want to grieve other players when I have only given reasons and options and ideas and logic and even this:

With friendly fire option enabled during game, at any point in time during the game can a player turn off friendly fire for their personal character, completely removing any ideas that a player can be grieved as with their personal option off they cannot be affected by other players, as players (with option turned off) would not be able to affect other players with it turned on or off.

So if you cannot see why I wouldn't be completely upset and frustrated by your illogical accusations toward me then I really don't have anything left to say except that I tried my hardest to prove that I am not a griever/PK and that I am merely asking for something I enjoyed from Diablo1 to return, not the latter Diablo2 hostility system.


 

Varquynne

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

Given that the title of the thread is "Will be PK possible in D3?", I think this particular thread is about PK. Just going out on a limb here. The other thread is about a friendly fire option.
 

Nizaris

Clan Officer - US West Hardcore
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

LOLCarebearsLOL said:
This is not about a PK system, its about an option for FF. (These two posts within this thread specifically) You even state that HC is an option and not an imposition.
Erm, this \/

Given that the title of the thread is "Will be PK possible in D3?", I think this particular thread is about PK. Just going out on a limb here. The other thread is about a friendly fire option.

@Carebear: And here's another thing - you said that there's a 50/50 split in your 2 thread's figures?

LOLCarebearsLOL said:
I would also like to point out that the tally right now stands at roughly 50% pro-PK and 50% anti-PK at a total of 30 votes, 17/13 against PK.
Actually, from what I see it's a about an 70/15 split with both combined. Or even if you want to deem all "maybes" as yes, then I'll say 70/30 split in favor of "no."

No: 53 (70.6%)
Yes: 11 (14.6%)
Maybe: 11 (14.6%)

Total: 75


 

Kiroptus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Will be PK possible in D3?

This is not about a PK system, its about an option for FF. (These two posts within this thread specifically) You even state that HC is an option and not an imposition.
No its not, the FF thread is the other one, this is one is about Pk, a.k.a. griefing.

Then you directly contradict yourself, saying an option should not be allowed, yet your first argument was that its not an option, but it is an option so it cannot create imposition, also this is not about PVP/PK is about an option for FF. How many times must I state that this and that are not the same.
The PK system of D2 was an imposition, having it a separate game mode in D3 is not on blizzard's design goals otherwise they wouldnt have been so vocally against it as they are.

So you want an option to pvp freely during game, something I didn't ask for, in replace of an option during game creation to allow what can be used for the same thing? Also, mine idea is safer against hackers rather then your idea that can be easily exploited as I said.
Ohh can it be exploited? Can you give me insights about it? Since the server need to have both parties to agree upon the hostility, is there a way to do it? Can you enlight me about it? Are there cases of forced duels in WoW? (a game where you have to accept the duel request for it to happen).

Your idea of letting it be like D2 (despite being an option on game creation or not) is what leaves the game open for hackers and exploits as D2 has showed us.

Besides, a mutual pvp option would just then take both players to the arena anyway so whats your point?
Im sorry I thought you were not a common PK griever, only one like that would be against a mutual hostility system.


With friendly fire option enabled during game, at any point in time during the game can a player turn off friendly fire for their personal character, completely removing any ideas that a player can be grieved as with their personal option off they cannot be affected by other players, as players (with option turned off) would not be able to affect other players with it turned on or off.
Again the thread about FF is on the other side. But Okay, I will bite:

D2 was made without having FF is mind, if FF was possible in D2, the game wouldnt even be played online, might as well not even play on MP. D1 has less AOE and shiny crazy things going on so it was somethat playable (tho it was grief/hackers haven in there), how would D2 function with FF? Can anyone here imagine it? It just WOULDNT work. D3 is being designed with lots of crazy AoE skills just like D2, why the hell would they add a useless option that makes the game unplayable on a MP enviroment???

Also why the hell you brought Friendly Fire in the middle of a PK discussion? FF is not even fathomable in D2 why would you even bring this up? I can imagine people discussing the nature of PKing but seriously, Friendly Fire? In an AOE-mindless-hack-and-slash-madness like Diablo? I mean... really??
 
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