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Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by SeCKSEgai, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    Hey all,

    I've been browsing through the sp forums and have noticed quite all the negative attention these two items seem to get here.

    As I'm a bnet player who's recently made the switch to SP, I'm just interested in getting opinions of why?

    I totally understand that they're powerful items, as I've killed several dclones and done over a 100 uber trist runs solo. Which is why I'm wondering why such "hatred" when the game does make you earn it (at least for the most part).

    With the anni, I totally hate the means of spawning a dclone, which I won't discuss in case that's a violation of this forums rules. Suffice it to say, it makes no sense to me. But as far as actually fighting and beating a dclone, I would hope to be well-rewarded. Short of a very well geared character (read expensive), he's going to be quite the challenge. My very first dclone kill was with a CL/FO sorc. I still remember it fondly as it was one of the toughest moments I had in D2.

    As for the torch, the quests themselves can't be done by just anyone, as the bosses are far more difficult than their normal counterparts. If anything, the reward is often not worth the time and effort as most torches have little value.

    If anything, I hate the ctc on it, but +3 class skills doesn't seem to me like overkill when you consider what you have to kill to get it. Stats and resist to me are only fair. But again, I made my bnet wealth off torch running last season, so I may be a bit biased.

    For those of you that detest the anni and torch, have you killed a dclone on bnet, or run a solo ubertrist? Or have you done neither and its more a matter of just feeling it too powerful? As I've done both, I can vouch that neither is an easy task to undertake.

    I realize they're not available for use on these forums according to the rules, so I would expect most people that have a negative view to strictly be SP players. But for those of you (if any) who play both (or have played) SP and Bnet (closed of course), do you feel the same negativity towards these items?

    And again, whether you like them or not, I make no judgement, not that it should matter. I'd just like to see the varying perspectives.
     
  2. Painman

    Painman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    I'm a former Bnet player too, and I have nothing against them. I've collected my share of both. In a way, though, I like how playing without them induces me to be more resourceful and creative with what I have.

    Besides, here in SP-land, we can always travel back to earlier patches and collect our own kinds of "overpowered" stuff. 1.07 charms with ridiculous amounts of +max damage, for instance. I guess one could call it a tradeoff.
     
  3. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    Yeah, that's basically what I'm wondering - if its more I never had it or done the quests but by looking at it it just seems wrong mindset, or if its more the game's too easy I need to not use it for the sake of challenge or something


     
  4. Hythopian Shade

    Hythopian Shade IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    I have often found it strange that there's an acceptable "add on" for SP that allows the use of bnet only rune words, but does not include the uber diablo/ tristram to get the annihilus/ torch. I don't know anything about the bosses' difficulty, nor how they spawn, but if I were to use any add ons that include bnet exclusive content, I'd like it to include it all. I never understood why blizzard decided to make bnet exclusive content like this, and even with it, I have never desired to play LoD on bnet.
     
  5. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    I don't really think there's a stigma, to be honest. If Blizzard added the bnet-only content to SP, I think the majority (myself included) would be super thrilled about it.
     
  6. Joeyzon

    Joeyzon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    I would love for dclone and ubers, as well as ladder only rw's, to be included in the next, or future, patch. They should probably end up doing this once D3 hits.
    But that is probably just wishful thinking on my part.


     
  7. Virtue

    Virtue IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    From what I understand of reading many many times. There is a way to battle both on single player, but they don't have the same AI as closed battle.net. Which in turn makes the fight almost stupid easy. The only hope we have, is Blizzard taking note of SP communities. HAH!


     
  8. Smips

    Smips IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    DClone's and the Uber's AI is server side on the realms, so there's no way to reproduce it correctly in SP.


    I'll agree with Fabian on this. I think most people would love the addition of Ubers and the DClone to SP. It's a shame Blizzard hasn't implemented it for us.


     
  9. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    I would have nothing against anni or torches in sp. Yes they are overpowered, but with all etical issues we have on SPF I don't think anni and torch would be overkill.

    We don't have "add on" because (probably) there isn't one identical as b-net. iirc there was something with AI mentioned up there in sticky threads. But even so with all knowledge in SPF I doubt that it would be impossible to someone to create mod that allows Uber three (I know mod making isn't suported here, I'm just saying that it's possible to create fuctional Uber mod). For D clone I doubt since spawning system is akward and dupe suporting imo.

    I would also love to have ubers in SP but for now it's just a dream.

    Question for Thy: If someone would actually be able to create such mod, would it be aproved? :scratchchin:

    I'm not sure that I get this part...
     
  10. Smips

    Smips IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    @Frozzzen: The AI for these monsters isn't hardcoded in the game. When playing on B.Net, the B.Net server provides the AI for them. Therefore, any Ubers/DClone mod is using AI created by the person who made the mod.
     
  11. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    LoD on bnet hasn't always been the best experience for me. Just as there are some really nice and extra helpful folks, there are also complete jerks - and somehow every season I play I manage to meet both. If I have to deal with jerks, its the nice folks that make it worthwhile. In fact, a few folks donated graciously to me when I started up expecting nothing in return. I ended up rewarding the first person quite nicely even though all his donations were simply out of kindness, expecting nothing in return.

    On the flipside, I made another friend who I ultimately hated dealing with. No matter how often I helped him, he was always charging me for this and that. Not once did I even get a friendly discount. Which, of itself I wouldn't mind, except that I paid when he charged for his time, but I never charged him for mine. Most of the time he wasn't really there as far as I knew, as he would just use a script (or several for all I knew) - which although tempting I detest. And still, so stingy. If I need to play a game by not playing at all, I need a new game. Why waste the bandwidth?

    I'm pretty sure blizzard wanted to insure healthy competiton for each ladder by giving people extra incentive to play a new ladder as opposed to sticking to NL. The irony is that you practically can't enter closed bnet without getting spammed about websites hocking the virtual in game loot. A lot of my moving to SP was out of frustration with competing with all the automatons.

    I had tried looking into this myself for my own personal use, but didn't realize that. If what Virtue said is true, than I know I won't be getting the same experience whatsoever from my days on bnet, which would ultimately defeat the reason for using it anyway.

    Of the approved mods, is there one in particular than people really like here (not counting atma or the like of course)?


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2010
  12. Painman

    Painman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    If it were possible to farm torches here by way of Blizz enabling it or via a FAM, there would be plenty of torch-farming going on, I'm sure. I'd probably have a few, myself. In both cases, I think that any forum-approved method of obtaining them would have to be via Blizz themselves enabling them in SP. For torches, as pointed out, we don't have the complete code for Uber Trist in SP. Annis came into existence because of the "SoJ problem" on the realms, so if Blizz ever enabled those in SP, it would be interesting to see how they went about spawning SP Diablo Clones. :scratchchin:

    @SeCKSEgai: Aside from ATMA/GoMule, it's pretty much just the Runeword Mod that we use around here. Some folks use the colored rune mod, but 1.13 made that semi-obsolete.
     
  13. Hythopian Shade

    Hythopian Shade IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    The only one I know of enables bnet only runewords.

    Edit: AMTA and GoMule are the best things ever, no more days of having 150+ mule characters. I started playing again a couple weeks ago, just putzing around I have almost 1500 stored items lol.
     
  14. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    Here you will compete with worse then bots :badteeth:
    People that can actually do 15000 Pindle runs in 10 days :badteeth:

    There aren't such programs or else they wouldn't be accepted :wink:
    But yes, there is certain amount of cheese thar some people don't like. ATMA bugging weapons or runing multiple instances of d2. Those are all stickied somewhere, but in the end it's all your personal preference what to use and what not.
     
  15. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    Honestly, I think some of the negative feelings that are expressed are a way to not feel so bad that they aren't available in SP. If you look back far enough, you'll see similar sentiments expressed about the "overpowered" Ladder Runewords before the RWM was popular.

    Personally, I would love to have an Anni and Torch. Given that I lean towards 2-handed characters, getting decent resists is miserable. Being able to get up to 8 SCs worth of resists for 3 inventory slots would make me a very happy camper. Of course, the other stats are pretty nice as well. :grin:

    However, at the end of the day, the charms aren't enough to make me put up with the annoyances involved with playing on B.net, so I do without them.
     
  16. Kefka

    Kefka IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    i'd love for blizzard to include those items, and i actually despise BLIZZARD for ignoring the thousands of requests for the ubers and pandemonium to come to SP. why bother asking for content requests if you knew you were going to ignore them?

    edit: i'd like to repose the idea as: the items aren't worth as much to me as the rest of the 1.10 ladder only rune words and the bosses. the bosses provide an actual challenge, beyond travincal with 3x stone skin, mana burn and fanat, might, conv auras. or the old gloam packs.
     
  17. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    imo the anni and torch are mere bonuses. the real deal is in facing dclone and ubers. SPers have done thousands of baal, meph diablo runs as it is already. a little change in scenery would be nice.. =P
     
  18. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    Oh as in mods, I was referring to median or rising sun. The runeword mod is what solidified my switching to SP since they were the main reason I even started this new ladder.
     
  19. Hythopian Shade

    Hythopian Shade IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    If you want to trade with people here, the only acceptable mods are ATMA/ GoMule and the Runeword mod. You could trade with someone who is using median or rising sun, but who uses them I know not.
     
  20. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why the stigma towards anni and torch?

    No. Read the trade rules. In particular, I'm referring to this post.

    You can trade Hell Unleashed/Median/Eastern Sun on this forum, as long as you follow the rules.

    --Greebo


     

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