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Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by pantherus, Jul 4, 2008.

  1. pantherus

    pantherus IncGamers Member

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    Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    I've been reading through all the threads here about people's thoughts on the D3 classes and Skill systems, and it begs a serious question -
    Why in the nine Hells does everything assume that D3 is just going to be a rehash of D2?
    Why do they assume that there will be "three skill trees" for every character?
    Why does every character from D2 have to be "represented" in D3?
    Why is almost every class idea for D3 considered in terms of "it's a mix of the X and Y from D2"?

    Come on people! D2 had some ground-breaking stuff, especially in terms of comparison to D1 - even if you take into account the festering turd that was Hellfire. In the buildup to D2 before the classes were announced, who would have thought of the idea of a class who gets a whole ton of minions up and working for them? For it to be any sort of real success, D3 MUST be original in itself - if they just redo D2 and add some fancy graphics then it will flop - just look at Dynasty Warriors to see how a game franchise can suffer from essentially rehashing the same game over and over again.

    I want to play a game where I need to think, and play the game in the spirit of the character I have created and am developing. What I DO NOT want, is a game where the essential flow is simply to endlessly attack the same enemy over and over again in a desperate hope of finding a certain item; I do not want a game where "rushing" is the norm for people who can't be bothered playing the game in its entirety.

    Now sure, some of that (particularly the last one) may just be fancy for me, but still worth thinking about.

    Let's get some ORIGINAL ideas out there - alternate ways the skills can be sorted rather than assuming it will be the same 3 skill trees.
     
  2. Glurin

    Glurin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Agreed. Everybody is making assumptions based on what D2 had, but nobody has any idea what D3 is going to be like. Things like "D3 classic will have 5 characters and the expansion will have 2". The first was just announced, and all we know for certain is that it is being created. We're not even close to reasonably discussing an expansion yet. Where is it written that "Thou shalt add only 2 characters into a Diablo 3 expansion."?

    Not to mention this little number: "The characters must fall into this specific lineup: Warrior, Mage, Rogue, Summoner, Healer, and you can't have two of any particular one." WoW certainly broke that mold. You've got at least four characters who could easily fit the healer category, yet they work very differently from each other. Just because you have two that use holy magic or two that use nature magic doesn't make them clones of each other.

    Blizzard comes up with new stuff in each game. There's no telling what's going to happen until it happens.
     
  3. Dimmu

    Dimmu IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Ahah you play D&D, no?

    But yes i agree with you, although it's very tough to argue with people with a one-track mind. Many havn't even seen diablo 1 before and assume everything was just like d2. They want a new game without understanding the meaning of the word "new".


     
  4. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Uh, Did you guys read the interviews?

    They said the game would have 5 characters. They said 3 would be staples from Diablo 1 / 2 and 2 would be new characters.

    As for the other 2, we can be fairly sure one of them is the Witch Doctor, which only leaves 1 for real speculation.

    As for the 3, well staples from diablo seem like ranged weapon character, pure magic user and melee weapon user (or in D1 terms Warrior, Rogue, Sorcerer).

    And as far as in terms of archetypes, D2 had a lot of them covered between the 21 trees of D2.

    Most games/characters can be described as some combination of D2 characters, so it stands to reason that D3 characters will as well.
     
  5. kontankarite

    kontankarite IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Aw ****, 3 classes will be staple remakes?

    Bye bye necro. T'was nice knowin' ya. Same for Druid.

    Man... 3 repeats instead of 3 new ones? Brutal...
     
  6. pantherus

    pantherus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    True - but that doesn't mean that we will just get another Amazon and Sorcerer/Sorceress rehash. Neither does it mean that "the paladin MUST be there" or "the Assassin will be there somewhere". Speculation is all well and good - when when people fall into the trap of "it's fairly obvious" and "this is absolutely going to happen" then you have trouble - either people suddenly get really disappointed if they DON'T happen, or it's blasted as being totally predictable if they DO do it...


     
  7. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    I would say it's "fairly obvious" that we will have a character that is the sorcerer/ess or some other pure magic user, a ranged weapon and 1 other class that will have something to do with holy magic.

    I think that stuff is going to happen in all probability. Why? Because they're staples of all nearly all RPGs and ARPGS and they're staples of the Diablo franchise (all of them, going back to D1).

    Aside from that, people like to speculate. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, everyone has had so much exposure to Diablo 2, where they saw stuff like 3 skill trees. Most of us have exposure to WoW with it's 3 talent trees. It seems fairly obvious that D3 will have 3 trees of SOMETHING. I mean, 3 just works so nicely as a number for that type of thing.

    I dont think speculation raises expectations because when we're speculating, a lot of people have very different ideas for the game, and some of them are very good. And with any luck, the excellent ideas will get implemented in the game in some way shape or form. Sure it generates argument, but that's just a byproduct that arises any time you have people who feel passionately about their opinions and disagree with other people.

    I just don't think its any real problem.



     
  8. lionheart

    lionheart IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    I think all the complaints and stuff come from the sole fact that d2 has been played so much and for so long that it has been inprinted in most people's mind as the only way that a diablo game should be. I am sure that if it wasn't a game that lasted around 8 years there would be not that many complaints but more tolerance towards new stuff and new concepts.
     
  9. TheSakari

    TheSakari IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    This is the most accurate post I've read all day.



     
  10. Arkansaw

    Arkansaw Banned

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Because a lot of pple still have deep attachment for their fav builds in D2 and would like to see them in new glory in D3? I really hope we can see Fishmancers in D3
     
  11. lionheart

    lionheart IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    I think its time to let go a little though... Give a chance to the new guys to get attached to them as well
     
  12. pantherus

    pantherus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Seriously though - they've announced the game and have a gameplay cinematic out - do you REALLY think the development team is sitting around saying "OK gang, we still need to figure out what our last character is going to be"??

    They've already got them sorted - skills may still be in the works but the characters will be decided on.

    What's interesting about saying "ok, so there's definitely going to be Paladin and a Sorcerer and an an Archer...so...oh wait, that's all the spots we have left...oh well!"

    The idea of speculation is to think up interesting ideas that COULD happen; and my point stands that there's no law that says that our remaining 3 classes are going to be Paladin, Mage, Archer.

    Why can't another melee character be a death knight (i see there's a poll about that)? Why can't we have a Cleric/Priest character - that could feasibly cover "Paladin" and Mage - serious magic, but can cause some serious whompage with a mace and heavy armour etc...
    I read an idea somewhere about a mounted class - that's friggen awesome!

    If we're going to be speculating - lets make it interesting!
     
  13. ultrasupreme

    ultrasupreme IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    I wouldn't worry so much about what the classes are, but how they do skills. If it is like D2, then there will be tons of options in the skill trees, making it so you can really create the character you want. The overall name, such as Barbarian, Witch Doctor, etc.. is just that, a name.
     
  14. Arkansaw

    Arkansaw Banned

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Yeah, but I guess pple are just worried that none of the new classes will account for their existing tastes. I'm not talking about the lamerdin-solo-8pp-hell kind of taste, but things like having the choice of playing a ranged type, or something that relies heavily on minions. Even if they only have 5 classes, there's no stopping them from breaking them up into more sub-classes beyond a certain level, if players want to specialize into them



     
  15. Jesse24

    Jesse24 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    It doesn't have to be a rehash, but you saw the preview. Tell me what part of it just blows D2 away?

    From what we've seen it has nicer graphics, a few new things you can smash in dungeons, slightly new characters, new items (well not really anything new but we can assume they will be), and new things to fight. It looks like D2 updated and improved to give us all a refreshment of our previous addiction. I have seen NOTHING to say that D3 is going to blow away D2 and be completely different, whereas going from D1 to D2 is a different story. That said, I'm still very much looking forward to it. It's just that the way blizzard seems to pushing how the storyline is going to be really cool doesn't have me screaming "REVOLUTION!" quite yet.
     
  16. Zorc

    Zorc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    i dont understand why they dont just bring all the old classes back and then make new classes therefore nothing lost and everything gained. i dont understand why a class has to "die" to make room for a new one. im pretty sure the necromancer and witch doctor could have co-existed. the witch doctor leans more toward zombies and disease. the necromancer is bone and skeletons. they could take psn away and give it to the witch doctor. add more bone stuff for the necromancer, new skeleton summons. otherwise i agree with you. they cant make it too similar or else it will fail.
     
  17. Ishmayl

    Ishmayl IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Maybe the answer to your "Why," is "because, the only 2 classes Blizzard has shown thus far are rehashes, and thus, they probably all will be." I don't condone this, but it seems a reasonable assumption to make, if assumptions must be made.
     
  18. Isuelde

    Isuelde IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Uh, Diablo 1 had three staple classes that were essentially retained in diablo 2.
    Warrior (Barbarian), Sorcerer (Sorceress), Rogue (Amazon).

    They added two classes: Paladin and Necromancer.

    Then they added two more in the expansion: Druid and Assassin.

    So basically, with the 3 old + 2 new, they're doing exactly what they did for Diablo 1 -> Diablo 2.

    I don't see any of you saying that was a horrible decision. I don't see the sorceress, amazon, or barbarian classes being underrepresented in online play.

    What changes, exactly, did you find were so amazing from D1->D2 that it 'blew you away'?

    D1->D2->D3: Higher resolution
    D1->D2->D3: Better graphics
    D1->D2->D3: More free inventory system
    D1->D2->D3: Some of the same skills, some different
    D1->D2->D3: Some of the same classes, some different.
    D1->D2->D3: Improvements to play over Battle.Net
     
  19. gathika

    gathika IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Alright, i am sick of just reading about how people think they are just rehashing chars. Bliz itself in there game play vid had even said about the barbarian class there there are a lot of new skills with a few of the old ones like WW. Bliz has ALWAYS added a lot of new content to there games not just look at them. All of the warcrafts are different and just what i have seen from the SC2 vids it will not be the same. You also have to look at the story that is going to be told.

    Now back to characters YOU nubs that seem to think Bliz is going to be so dumb to rehash a game need to use your brain and watch the vid again LOOK at what they were willing to show us to keep us on the edge in anticipation. The Barb they show had a totally new style of combat able to stun multiple enemy's. And look at what they show us with the W/D (which i think is the replacement for the Necro, I believe it is kind of obvious but i could be WRONG). Yes there are going to be some of the old chars and probably some of the most common use like the Pally(BYE BYE HDIN). They are going to focus on group play so this means there will be no power characters. The options are limitless to what they can come up with they have years of data which they can use (D&D, Diablo itself, etc..). If you think Bliz is going to be stupid enough to rehash a game you need to look at the differences between all of the games that they have made WC1,2,3, WoW, Diablo1,Helfire,2,LOD, and SC,2. every one of them is totally different than the original which WoW is Warcraft.

    Sorry if this seems like a rant (and it kind of is), but i am sick of people whom do not use there brains.
     
  20. pantherus

    pantherus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why must D3 be a rehash of D2???

    Hey, fair calls all around.

    If Bliz wind up replicating a couple of D2 characters - so what of it? I'm sure they'll do a fine job of it too. What I have issue with (and I'll freely admit this is me personally having issues with something very meaningless to people) is every perceived aspect of D3 to be "in context" of D2 - but then someone did point out earlier in the thread that that's only natural considering the games been out and regularly played for the better part of 8 years. You yourself did but by proclaiming that the WD is the "replacement for the Necro". Sure the WD does some stuff that was the Necro's realm in D2 - but let the WD just be the WD, instead of being a "replacement".

    Think about the D1 -> D2 transition. You can argue that the Amazon is the replacement for the rogue for example - OK, but only 1/3 of her, which can even further be drilled down to two words: "uses bows". Summons, spears, javalins - all that was new going into D2. And how about the necro? How does he fit in any way with D1? He doesn't. He was brand new.

    If you want to minimize your imagination here? Go ahead, but just realise how silly you look by saying "this MUST happen" and "that definitely WILL happen"...heck, I saw someone state "I saw a short bow drop in that video, so it's obvious we'll have an Amazon" - I mean come one! How short-sighted is that?!?!


     

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