Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/Bone

core1000

Diabloii.Net Member
Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/Bone

Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/Bone ?

1) Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/Bone ?

Skeleton Mastery
passive - increases life and damage
of raised skeletons and revived creatures

Current Skill Level: 40
Skeletons: Life: +320
Skeletons: Damage: +80
Magi: Life: +320
Magi: Improved Missile Damage
Monsters: Life: +200 percent
Monsters: Damage: +400 percent

Raise Skeletal Mage
(Skeleton Mastery has been factored into calc)
cast on the corpse of a slain monster,
this raises a skeleton mage that
fights for you

Current Skill Level: 40
Life: 381
Life: 408 (N)
Life: 443 (H)
Defense: 800
15 skeleton magi
Mana Cost: 47

Below is the table of necromage missile's damage according to the relative skill level listed in the above table. Level 59 in this table corresponds to level 40 Skeleton Mastery and level 40 Raise Skeletal Mage 40+((40-2)/2) = 59.

Relative Skill Level 59
Poison Damage 337
Poison Duration (Sec) 600
Cold Damage 221-224
Cold Duration (Sec)* 59
Fire Damage 391-395
Lightning Damage 59-615

* Note: Freezing is cut 1/2 in Nightmare and 3/4 in Hell.


Poison Nova
(With Level 1 Poison Dagger, Level 20 Poison Explosion as its synergies)
emits an expanding ring of concentrated poison

Current Skill Level: 40
Poison Damage: 3468-3571 over 2 seconds
Mana Cost: 20
 

TiredDaemon

Diabloii.Net Member
The average damage of fire/ice/lightning is ~280 per blast.
15 mages X 280 damage: 4200 damage.

There are other points you can argue, poison nova can affect more monsters at once. Poison is highly resisted. PN is easier to spam, mages are good for taking damage away from the necromancer, blah blah.. But if you just care about the damage, the damage is comparable.
 

core1000

Diabloii.Net Member
TiredDaemon said:
The average damage of fire/ice/lightning is ~280 per blast.
15 mages X 280 damage: 4200 damage.

There are other points you can argue, poison nova can affect more monsters at once. Poison is highly resisted. PN is easier to spam, mages are good for taking damage away from the necromancer, blah blah.. But if you just care about the damage, the damage is comparable.
How about killing speed?
 

Damadreas

Diabloii.Net Member
Skele Mages suck balls.

Read title. Nuff said. Stick with the revives/rs :D :D :D Muuuch better. SCREW MAGERS. TEH R DA SUX0R
 

Kyo

Diabloii.Net Member
Not sure why these comparisons keep cropping up. IMO their 2 different trees and each skill set each has their own pro's and con's.

Your probably right and a pure statistical level PN can probably win on pure damage alone but that because it a direct offensive spell.

Whereas Mages is a minion base skill and it job preferablly is to help out in the damage department by concentration in numbers, they are part of your undead army in protecting you. Therefore the way i think of it. Would i have a great crowd control spell PN or would i have a army behind my back.

Hehe i am bias towards minions due my overlord background but i suppose each has their own weapon of choice.

slvl 40 wow. Is everyone reaching that level so easily, what your secret? :D
 

Mad Mantis

D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator
Mages are very good. Skeletons are very good. Poison is very good. All have their ups and downs. The fact that both builds exist should tell you that both are effective.
And besides killing speed there is also something called fun. Most people usually have this item equipped when they make a build. Fun is what matters most. Not supreme effectiveness. We are NOT Zons or Barbs.

IMO these threads are useless.
 

Kyo

Diabloii.Net Member
Mad Mantis said:
Mages are very good. Skeletons are very good. Poison is very good. All have their ups and downs. The fact that both builds exist should tell you that both are effective.
And besides killing speed there is also something called fun. Most people usually have this item equipped when they make a build. Fun is what matters most. Not supreme effectiveness. We are NOT Zons or Barbs.

IMO these threads are useless.
My sentiments exactly.
 

toolthegod

Diabloii.Net Member
ok, what about curses? are you useing any? or do you just think your mages will do all the work for you? You got high lvl mastery and mages. I love this kind of build. What lvl are you? are you in hell or nm? Or do you even have a build like this? Are you just looking at some website and doing the math?

*grabs a rope* :creep:
 

GenXCub

Diabloii.Net Member
Also remember that having your points in Mages and not a level 40 poison nova means that you're not blowing tons of Mana... thereby changing your stats and gear selection to a more frail, casting type build.
 

TheKbob

Diabloii.Net Member
How dare some one say revived are good... *eye twitches*...

The King of Mages is a build that relies on Mages. It would be a big suggestion that if you are going full Mage only that you get lower res and learn how to use Bone Prison quickly and efficiantly.

As for summon high archy:

Skeletons>Mages>Revived.

Revived = 3 minutes and they won't teleport to stay with you like skeletons do. if you get outside of their "life range" or too far away from them, they die.

~Kbob
 

Necrochild313

Diabloii.Net Member
core1000 said:
[Poison Duration (Sec) 600
That just really blows, shame that poison doesn't PMH like it did in 1.09.

Then again, maybe it does, if it does, it'd be freakin awesome. There's speculation over this.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
if you don't want the poison mages, just unsummon them and summon a new bunch. It takes a bit of time to arrange your summons properly, but it's well worth it, especially to counter resistances and immunities of your monster opponents per area.
 

assmuffin

Diabloii.Net Member
Mad Mantis said:
Mages are very good. Skeletons are very good. Poison is very good. All have their ups and downs. The fact that both builds exist should tell you that both are effective.
And besides killing speed there is also something called fun. Most people usually have this item equipped when they make a build. Fun is what matters most. Not supreme effectiveness. We are NOT Zons or Barbs.

IMO these threads are useless.
Barbs are supremely effective? :D

I don't think Skeletons/Mages were meant to be quick killers. They were never like that and most likely Blizz didn't mean their power boost in 1.10 to make them the best. I made a Overlord for the fun of playing as one (and also lagging the other people in the game), not so I can kill everything in about 10 seconds. People in the game thank me that Baal's minions don't rush up and destroy them. Also, nobody ever said you have to pick one. Go skeletons and poison. Might not be as effective as pure poison, but you won't have trouble with Poison Immunes.
 

nurman

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/B

Well, the maxed Skeleton related skills obviously fare better in hell than PBs.
 

DevilbIrd

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/B

How dare some one say revived are good... *eye twitches*...

The King of Mages is a build that relies on Mages. It would be a big suggestion that if you are going full Mage only that you get lower res and learn how to use Bone Prison quickly and efficiantly.

As for summon high archy:

Skeletons>Mages>Revived.

Revived = 3 minutes and they won't teleport to stay with you like skeletons do. if you get outside of their "life range" or too far away from them, they die.

~Kbob
Actually revives are the best, they are what kill your bosses and the ubers. You just have to know that you need to revive a variation of a gorebelly (because of cb chance) and have an enigma, which any good summon nec should have.

On the note of the thread, they are still strong (use a necro pet calc to see their dps) and if you are playing correctly you'll have an A2 merc giving you and your minions a might aura, then a whisp projector for another aura, and finally a beast runeword for a final aura (and maybe cta if you want), all of which will make them do a lot more damage than you think. Oh and I forgot a merc with an infinity will make your mages 100x better (or 5x better on bosses).

Also, as a summon nec you can solo hell where as a poison nec cannot due to immunes.

Finally ANY summon nec build should have corpse explosion maxed. I find that I use my minions to kill the first monster and then my corpse explosion does the rest (got a 12 yard range atm).

Woops didn't realized this thread was from 6 years ago. Stop grave digging!


 

Zarniwoop

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/B

If you have crushing blow on your merc, and you have a decent level of corpse explosion, I don't think poison is faster at all.

You're doing it wrong.

That 3000 damage in hell is worth about as much as the lint in your pockets.
 

Black Lotus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Why is +40 Skeleton Mastery & +40 Skeletal Mages still weak? Compared to Poison/B

slvl 40 wow. Is everyone reaching that level so easily, what your secret?
20 hard points.
Anni +1
Torch +3 (this is a must part of any ladder necro, since low torches aren't worth anything: i've get my first one for a few pgms)
Shako +2 (Again, low shakos aren't that expensive: a few pgms or lem for 100+ def shako)
Leorik +5 (Pul maybe, not the most expensive weapon around =) )
Homunculus +2 (The same story. Probably the most useful necro shield, if you're after pure +skills, get +3 boneflame)
+1 skills unique armor (i traded my first enigma at level 70+, but low resist +1 skills vipermagi is much cheaper)
Amulet +2 (i love +res all, +mf and +life/mana mods appear on rare amulets, but the maximum for this slot is +3 tree)
Marrowwalk +1 (say, +2 mastery is the same as +1 to summoning tree when it comes to skellies).

That's around
+18 mastery
+16 raise skeleton
+15 raise mage

SoJs (+2), Enigma (+1), arach (+1) and +sum tree grand charms would easily beat those 40slvl cap. Say, with full stuff and 5 skillers necro has 47 lvl mastery, but there is no need in such a crazy amounts: corpse explosion spoils all the fun of that skellie-damage race. Just wait for your infinity-equipped merc make a first corpse out of group amplify-cursed monsters and then...
Well, you may create an iron golem out of pride runeword (concentration aura), use a beast runeword on switch and wisp projector in a ring slot to achieve incredible damage (merc would have an average value of 10-12k), but again, crushing blow leaves no chance to that damage. Beating uber bosses and even tristram does not require anything but crushing blow revives (no matter were they lvl 30 or 45) and merc. I did not find any practisal use for those 10-12k damage!

I'm so sorry I can't write in proper Enlgish as it's not my native language, but i hope you would understand that what I wrote. Thank you.
 
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