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why hydra bow not crusader 4 runewords?

Discussion in 'Newcomer Forum' started by yxx, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. yxx

    yxx IncGamers Member

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    why hydra bow not crusader 4 runewords?

    it seems people prefer hydra bow 4 runewords. I just wonder why not other bows. For example, crusader bow has the exactly same average damage and attack speed, but less strength and dex requirement. Is it better?
     
  2. Oscuro

    Oscuro IncGamers Site Pal

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    Many people don't bother to look at the raw stats of the weapon like you, and just assume that hydra is the best choice simply because it's higher/rarer than other bows. The only possible reasons to use a hydra over a crusader that I can think of are:

    1. You have a hydra bow with the correct number of sockets already and don't feel like trading for a crusader.
    2. It's for a mercenary which will have enough strength points regardless.
    3. You want to have a chance for higher maximum damage (at the cost of having a chance for lower damage as well).
     
  3. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    Also, even if the average damage is the same (didn't check that), people an average still think that lightning with 1-500 does more damage than something that "only" does 300-310 --- many people look at maxdam, not at the average. Even more so if mindamage is getting closer to max.
     
  4. Bullet-Tooth Tony

    Bullet-Tooth Tony IncGamers Member

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    I don't agree, that it's better to have higher maxdamage. With the same average, I would go for less maxdamage-mindamage difference. I think it's better to be sure you're going to kill something in a given period of time, rather than have a chance not to be able to kill it fast enough, even if you have a chance to kill it faster, than you need.
    I mean, "fast enough" and "faster, than enough" pretty much doesn't make any difference. "Not fast enough" - that's what really matters.
     
  5. xOSERx

    xOSERx IncGamers Member

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    I see your point, tony, but you have to look at the other side of the coin.

    While you have a chance to do a ton of damage and thus save your life by killing faster, you also have the chance to royally screw yourself by doing 20 damage repeatedly.

    I'm in the camp that prefers consistant damage over inconsistant damage with the same average. I'd rather know what situations are safe for me and what situations I need to turn tail and run from.
     
  6. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    I would, given the same or at least almost the same average damage, prefer the tighter range ass well.

    If we stick with spells for a moment (applies to weapons as well, of course): if I have a lightning that does 1-600 damage and a fireball that does 300 damage, then both do the same average damage.

    Now, if I have a monster with 600HPs (and no resists and stuff like that), I would --- after some gaining some playing experience with the char --- know that I need to fire 2 fireballs at it and it will be dead. So I would get into the habit of firing 2 fireballs, and then turning to the next target even before the first fireball has hit.

    If I used the lightning instead, I would have a 1-hit-kill chance --- but I won't know how many hits I need until the monster is dead, because I also have a (rather low) chance for a 600-hit-kill. Of course, over time things will average out, but that doesn't help me at all.

    For weapons, you not only get to learn how long you need to hit before the target is dead, you also get more consistent leeching. Granted, the lightning example is extreme because those spells usually get very high maxdamage and very low mindamage (nova being the exception here, IIRC), but if I look at my Windforce I already see a very large range: IIRC it's 2xx mindamage and 2xxx maxdamage, so it's getting close to the lightning situation. So I really have no idea how many hits I need to kill a monster...
    It's not overly important here since I use Strafe, so I don't have control over my shooting, but still...
     
  7. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    A broader range means more randomness. The monster hordes benefit more from that that your characters, especially in hardcore. If a monster dies from randomness, another one will come around the corner in 1 second. If your L90 character dies, it needs a little more time until you have a new one and even in softcore, you will need more time to recover from the XP loss than a new monster needs to appear at the scene.
     
  8. 5Ws

    5Ws Banned

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    Guys, it's also for bragging. People who brag about their damage don't tell you the average damage, they pick the highest number.
     
  9. Tarantella

    Tarantella IncGamers Member

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    Did I ever tell you about the javelin I had that could do 250k damage? :cool:
     
  10. Bullet-Tooth Tony

    Bullet-Tooth Tony IncGamers Member

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    Of course, it's a kind of extreme tuning, but still, I beleive, that calculating your character effectiveness, if all other more important factors are equal, you must take into consideration such thing as wasted damage. Wasted damage - is extra damage, that was not required to kill a monster. For instance - 200 HP left, 500 HP attack. 300 points of damage is wasted in this case.
    That's another reason why I will always go with lower damage/faster attack, rather than higher damage/slower attack with the same avg damage per second - less wasted damage.
    1-599 attack and 300 attack have the same average damage over long period. A 300 attack always does the same damage, the other one has "lucky" rolls with good damage and "unlucky" ones. But the sum of "lucky" and "unlucky" gives us the same average.
    With 1-599 some "lucky" high damage rolls do not count in this "damage over long time", because sometimes 10 pt of damage is the same that 580, because the monster only had 10 HPs left.
    Of course, this factor varies a lot, depending on hit points of monsters you kill. In extreme case, for instance - 250 HPs, a 300-point attack will always give you 1-hit kills, while 1-599 will waste more than half (I think) of it's average damage, taking sometimes up to 250 hits to kill the target!
    Of course, with great monster HP variety (even within one monster kind) this factor smoothes quite a bit, but still, for extreme tuning, I think, it can be taken into consideration.
     
  11. jordy666

    jordy666 IncGamers Member

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    chars have XXXX-YYYY dmg, when we win we brag about Y.
    when we lose/die we complain about X

    :D

    -jordy :king:
     
  12. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Of course, the other extreme is a moster with 301 hp. With a 300 hp attack, you will always need two hits for a kill while you need a little more than 1.5 hits for a kill with a 1-599 damage attack. It evens out.

    In spite of that, the less randomness, the better for the player, as I already said.
     

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