Why are (other) agnostic/atheists afraid of religion? ifra

Technetium

Diabloii.Net Member
Why are (other) agnostic/atheists afraid of religion?

I don't believe in god. But I have, in my music collection, some of Neal Morse's solo albums which are about his Christian awakening. I know some other non-religious people who have said that the music is great, but they don't want to get it because of the religious themes. Some of these people I know listen to plenty of music about death and destruction, but they have no problems separating their own opinions from the content of the lyrics there, so why the double-standard?

It appears to me that a lot of agnostic/atheists are afraid of the idea of someone else thinking that they believe in god (and the example I have above is just one that is on my mind at the moment, because I'm listening to the music currently). I don't understand that fear. Who cares what other people think? I will listen to Neal's music in public, and sing along with his lyrics about Jesus when the music is good enough to sing along with, and if other people are unable to separate my own beliefs from that of the music's author, then that is their shortcoming, not mine.
 

DurfBarian

Diabloii.Net Member
A huge percentage of the classical music I listen to was originally religious in nature.

I don't believe in what inspired it, but I'm awfully glad it got inspired. :)
 
I'll try to reply yet again. I'm addressing the music alone, though, not the whole religion business; that's asking for trouble.

Anyone who dismisses a whole genre of music based on what they think it stands for is missing out on some fabulous artwork. Their loss is my gain, I would have to say. The same can be said about Rap, Country, or any genre that people won't listen to just because of what they think it represents. That is ignorance, plain and simple.

Even the most imposing trash heaps can hide gems if one takes the time to search.
 

Madness

Diabloii.Net Member
How about a religion bashing song, or an atheism preaching band.
Would you listen to those?

Im just wondering.
Personally, I listen first, and decide later.
 

Phantom_Man

Diabloii.Net Member
I think it's pretty ludicrous. You don't have to take music for its face or deeper value; you interpret it however you like. If you like the music, ignore the fact that it's about God. Fairly simple practice in my opinion. I think the people you mention who are "afraid of the idea of someone else thinking that they believe in god" aren't exactly secure with their beliefs.

Unfortunately, people care what others think of them, so it may just be spawning from a creature of habit.

Pity, I thought this was gonna be a fun argument. Damn you Tech and your context!
 
Madness said:
How about a religion bashing song, or an atheism preaching band.
Would you listen to those?

Im just wondering.
Personally, I listen first, and decide later.
I have the unique ability to rarely be capable of deciphering words in a song, for some reason. I therefore have learned to appreciate music, and voices for their musical prowess, without being subverted.
 
Most of the atheists I have met in real life have said religion is brainwashing and religious music is one of the ways they do it. So I am going to say they know they have weak minds and are trying to protect themselves. :D


That and even Jesus hated Creed.
 
I would not use the word "afraid," and wonder why you did, Tech. But those who you mentioned are probably at least a little rebellious with their agnosticism/atheism.

I don't listen to any Christian bands because I have never found their music to be good. My favorite band has three great songs with a Christian taste to them, lyrically. One talks about the Devil, Jesus, and Judas; another indirectly about Noah's Ark; and another about life after death.

While the Bible may not be true, it definitely has many great stories.
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
This Easter weekend, you may hear strains of Handel's Messiah.

As an avowed agnostic, I have always considered it a beautiful piece of music.
 

Sokar Rostau

Diabloii.Net Member
I think it would help to understand that there are four types of people in the world:

1. Religious people that subscribe, to a greater or lesser extent to a particular faith.

2. Spiritual people that do not bound themselves to a particular faith but aknowledge some higher being and choose to worship in their own way (often a combination of faiths is involved in their method of worship).

3. Agnostics. Agnostics do not NOT believe in a god, they believe that humans can know nothing about a deity and therefore all religion is false. They are closely related to Spiritualists.

4. Atheists do not (usually) believe in a higher being. There are some people (probably most that describe themselves as atheist because the spiritual urge is so strong in Homo Sapiens for it) that are Agnostic Atheists - I will believe it when I see it.

ALL of the last three categories stem from the first. Faith is an extremely hard notion to maintain in a rational world and when faith forces itself upon a person it makes the unattractive downright ugly. Religion is intimately bound up with all that is good in man but also all that is bad. W H Prescott said: "Such as do build their faith upon the holy text of pike and gun; and prove their doctrines orthodox through apostolic blows and knocks...It was the just recompense for Rebellion; a word that has been made the apology for more atrocities than any other word - save Religion." Agnostics and Atheists are not born, they are created with very good reason and some Atheists, especially, are very bitter towards organised religion and any attempt to force it upon them.

I am very much like MixedVariety in that I consider the human voice to be an instrument and lyrics to be notes. I also think that those who automatically dismiss a genre of music and refuse to listen to it are missing out. What is important is the overall texture of a piece of music and often religious music tries so hard that it draws attention to itself and detracts from the music. I recently took part in Musicoz, which is a nationally broadcast awards show for unsigned Australian musicians (kind of like the Grammy's for emerging talent) and the difference between the winner of the Gospel category and the runners up was that the winner put a prayer to music (and if no one told you it was a prayer you would never know) and the runners up were more concerned with their 'message' than their music.

Music has always been a sacred activity associated with the spirit of man and it still is, it just isn't obvious. Good music will still produce a longing whether the subject is Jesus or Mary Jane Rottencrotch or it will entrance or invigorate, calm or excite. Music is all about emotion and effecting the spirit (and I say that with absolutely no religious connotation).
 

Peregrine

Diabloii.Net Member
[sings]Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord (Peregrine)
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.[/sings]

Why not listen to it, it's a good song. A lot of the classical religious music at least sounds good. Of course the same really can't be applied to more modern music. Occasional religious themes in lyrics aren't something I mind, but most of the time when they try to force it too much, the end result doesn't sound anywhere near as good as non-religious music.
 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Sokar Rostau said:
Agnostics and Atheists are not born, they are created with very good reason and some Atheists, especially, are very bitter towards organised religion and any attempt to force it upon them.
It seems more logical to assume that everyone is born an atheist or agnostic, and may or may not be taught a certain faith. Even as an agnostic with a Protestant childhood, I can remember, way back in the depths of my memory, a time when I had no concept of God.

But that's neither here nor there. The value of art does not depend on whether it's audience agrees with its message or even finds it pleasant. All that matters is that something is creatively communicated.
 

Johnny6

Diabloii.Net Member
Maybe they really do think the music sucks, they just don't want you to feel bad so they blame it on the religion.
 

PublicEnemy

Diabloii.Net Member
Technetium said:
It appears to me that a lot of agnostic/atheists are afraid of the idea of someone else thinking that they believe in god (and the example I have above is just one that is on my mind at the moment, because I'm listening to the music currently). I don't understand that fear. Who cares what other people think?
Believing in God can leads to fanaticism.
People can kill/slaughter to defend their faith.History has shown that believers have killed non-believers (and believers of other faiths) just because they had expressed their views about their religion or because they simply didn't believe in a God.
Hence fear.

You people of faith are in part responsible for that fear.You have put your faith too high in holiness that it's not possible to argue about the veracity of a religion or the existence of God/Allah/Jehovah,etc..without being accused of "racism", "discrimination", "intolerance", "ignorance" .
I have been accused of these things in real life and in these forums because I have argued or used my reasonning against what can't be discussed because it is holy and written in the books (esp Kuran ),thus so called true .
When people of different faiths cease to threaten to death, insult ,intimidate,despise those who don't agree with their religion, and when they accept to argue with logical arguments and not eternal religious arguments, then there will be no more fear from non-believers (or other believers of other faiths).
I am not the only one to think that way, but few dare to say it .
 

Drosselmeier

Diabloii.Net Member
DurfBarian said:
A huge percentage of the classical music I listen to was originally religious in nature.

I don't believe in what inspired it, but I'm awfully glad it got inspired. :)
Amen! Cash was a Christian fundamentalist and Bach was the fifth evangelist, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it. It's good music.

It's ok with me if people want to share their belief and even win me over. I'm confident enough to have those discussions. I'm not afraid of it. I can understand why people are annoyed by some religious people though.

As long as they can't force me to worship I'm fine with almost anything.
 

Ev_

Diabloii.Net Member
If they just don't like how the band sounds, that's absolutely fine to avoid the band.

If they like the band's sound, but are annoyed by the lyrics, then it's a matter of whether or not they can get past the lyrics. For a lot of religious bands that's easy because they don't just sing about god 24/7. The occasional mention of something spiritual isn't that hard to get over. But if the lyrics sounded overly preachy and a bit corny, I could definitely understand someone dropping a band they would otherwise listen to.

But avoiding a band JUST because they're religious...that's dumb and close minded.

It just depends on how the band presents the fact that they're religious. The members of one of my favorite bands, Chevelle, are all Christian, but you'd never guess it by listening to their music.
 

Johnny6

Diabloii.Net Member
It may be close minded, but what's so dumb about it? I mean what's somebody really got to lose by not listening to something that they've never heard before? There isn't exactly a shortage of "music a person's never heard before" for any given person, so I dunno if I'd go around calling somebody names for saying "eh, whatever, I'm not interested" regardless of their reason(s).

Unless it was costing me profit or something. But I'm not a pusher, so "it's all good" as the kidz™ say these days.
 

Professor Blasto

Diabloii.Net Member
MixedVariety said:
I'll try to reply yet again. I'm addressing the music alone, though, not the whole religion business; that's asking for trouble.

Anyone who dismisses a whole genre of music based on what they think it stands for is missing out on some fabulous artwork. Their loss is my gain, I would have to say. The same can be said about Rap, Country, or any genre that people won't listen to just because of what they think it represents. That is ignorance, plain and simple.

Even the most imposing trash heaps can hide gems if one takes the time to search.
I'm atheist and people think I am Christian (many people anyway). Many think this because I don't openly proclaim my atheism, if someone were to ask I would tell them, but I don't go around saying I'm atheist and you're stupid for believing in God. Many others think this because I mention Jesus and God so much, some people call me Jesus (slight resemblance maybe, if Jesus was blonde). I don't think those people that think I'm Christian because I mention God and Christ really listen to all I say. Not all of it's bad. Christ basically came out of nowhere and changed the world. If only I could figure out how to do that...

I hate rap and country because I just don't like the style of music, plain and simple. It doesn't appeal to me, the same goes for pop. I don't like much Christian music either, I haven't really found anything that appeals to me there (as far as music is concerned).
 

dantose

Diabloii.Net Member
I can understand not liking music that bashes on something you believe in, but I think it's silly to not listen to music because it is about another religion. Hell, I'd listen to buddist music if it sounded good.
 
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