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Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Xaviar, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Xaviar

    Xaviar IncGamers Member

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    Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Guys, get realistic. There is absolutely no way an AH could be viable in D3. Let me explain in point form since I don't really want to write 10 pages.

    - The obvious one: searching for items will be very difficult due to affix system. There is no solution anyone can think of to address this issue. You can't filter by name, and you can't filter by mods (there are what, 1000 affixes to choose from?). What are you going to do, select the stats you're looking for out of a dropdown menu of 1000 stats? Keyword Search for affix stat name? That will require a lot of research and knowledge, and doesn't work for rares (since the affixes are invisible and/or different to magic affixes). Not to mention there is no way Blizzard would do that as it is extremely counter-intuitive, and not casual friendly/accessible.

    - "Searching" for the item you want will yield tens of thousands of results. Since a lot of filters are impossible to implement (as described above), There are no "realms" in D3, only regions. This means that you can expect 20-40x the population of what a WoW realm would have. And no binding system (which means every item can be put in the AH, now imagine that was the case with WoW. There would be 1000x more items in the AH.)

    - Pricing of items will be impossible to set and predict, resulting in massive sporadic item values. When there are 5000 "cruel Collossus blades", the first 4999 that are listed will be undercut, and/or listed with totally different values. Now add the fact that the %'s are variable, and you end up with one giant economic mess. On an economic standpoint, supply and demand cannot regulate prices like this.

    - Chinese farmers: They will destroy the D3 economy as it is not protected by a binding system. An AH will allow chinese farming businesses to list tens of thousands of items, and then go straight back to farming while they sell. With an automated selling system (the AH), they can list items without restriction, and do not need to communicate and haggle pricing. This allows them to sell efficiently, and drastically increases their profitability, which will cause more of them to farm the hell out of D3. REMEMBER: FARMING IS NOT AGAINST THE TOS. So they cannot be banned.

    - An AH with a using population of 2-5 million users (each selling dozens of items) is not going to work. Both technically and theoretically.

    - How do you value your rare phase blade that has 270% ehn dmg, 4% life leech and +20 to vitality, +46% CR? Do you look at the other 5000 rare Phase Blade, in which one that has 285% ehn dmg, 10 Dex, 20% IAS, and +5 to max damage listed for X amount of gold? What about the other 4998 phase blades all selling for totally different amounts? How on earth do you know where you stand? No two items are alike. Now times this by the thousands upon thousands of random items with similar stats? Again, supply and demand cannot set prices in this type of situation.
     
  2. spindrjr

    spindrjr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    This argument has been beat to death and it is dead. Drop it. AH is by far the easiest/quickest way to find a specific item. If they wanted to make it "simple" for stupid people, they could add a button that randomly lists 150 items around the level of the searcher. Basically the same thing as a 'market game'. No one is arguing that it has the possibility of being huge (see below)

    If they were going to implement a traditional AH, how they would split it up, if at all, would be an interesting dilemma. Everyone can agree that if there was a single AH for each region, it would be enormous.

    False. Supply and demand can always regulate it. Undercutting is a fact of a market. If there are 5000 of an item, demand must be large, which means turnover will be large. Don't make the assumption that just because people can list whatever they want, means that they will. AHs almost always come with a cost. Listing items that you are fairly sure will not sell is not profitable and intelligent people will not do so.

    No doubt an AH would make it easy for farmers to sell stuff. But the effect this would have on the economy is based largely on Blizzard's methods and effectiveness and catching and shutting down automated farmers/gold sellers.

    For the record, I think a traditional AH including an entire region would be an awkward setup (having not tried it, only imagining it). But that doesn't make it impossible. Lots of things about an AH can be manipulated; listing fees, percentage cuts, listing limits etc. Blizzard has to find a solution that is easy enough that it won't drive people to third party solutions for trading. It will be interesting to see what they have come up with so far.


     
  3. Xaviar

    Xaviar IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    You offer a bunch of conclusions yet no explanation or counter arguments to my points. Explain to me any possible solutions to the issues I just posted, rather than just saying "you're wrong, it will all be ok."
     
  4. Ellihs

    Ellihs IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    And you have really only just speculated the exact same 'issues' that have been beaten to death for weeks

    We don't even know it will be an "Auction House" =/
     
  5. Morannon

    Morannon IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    I think a filter system is the best option. As for the problem of presenting a large amounts of information to the player... remember how long and hard blizz worked on visualizing the skill "tree"? I kind of think blizz has a passion for making menus and such. I think they have the determination and skills to present all those modifiers in a clear and intuitive way.

    I think the key is to group similar modifiers together and use multi-level selection. For example there would be a category called "resistances". By clicking on it you reveal the different elemental and physical resistances. By clicking on one of them, for example "fire resistance", you reveal a slider that let's you select the minimum and maximum amount you want to filter in. Of course there is point when too much multi-level grouping just makes it tedious and frustrating to use the AH. But I think blizz can work that balance out.
     
  6. Crudesash68

    Crudesash68 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    The only way anyone would want to use the AH is if the selling pool was limited to the point where searching would not be a tiring chore.

    What we don't know is how the pool of items will look in a clean economy; how many rares, for any armor or weapon slot, will you find that are truly valuable in a 4 hour run of playing? That you will want to sell, as well? There may be a million people in a realm, but that doesn't mean that the whole million will be running hell games and finding great rares.

    I still think that an AH will be efficient, if we can get it down to a small enough pool to not overwhelm the buyer with endless listings.
     
  7. jamesL

    jamesL IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    go to google.com
    enter
    0596805888
    now search

    if the programmers at google can figure out that those numbers represent an ISBN and can show me the correct book at amazon, then I'm I'm sure that the programmers at blizzard can figure out how to do an AH

    searching is difficult,
    figuring out exactly what the person is searching for can be even more difficult, but talented programmers can do it
     
  8. Buen

    Buen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    First of all, there isen't 1000's of Affixes, atleast not if D2 is the Yardstick we measure by,
    I don't recal D2 even having 50, and that's even when some of the more dodgy affixes got introduced to the more powerfull uniques and runewords.

    If D3 has, let's say 100 affixes (And even that is doubtfull, because that's ALOT!) then the ability to search for your gear of choice (Armor, Shoulderpads, weapon etc.) with say, a choice of 3 affixes picked in diminishing relevance, would make it rather simple to to find some gear with some of the stats you are looking for.

    Because really, when you are looking for something new to wear, how oftent do you really look for 5,6,8,9 or 10 stats specifically? Usually if you need a new weapon, you would look for one with a good ED, when you find one, you check if the rest of the stats are good aswell, maybe it even has some +damage/level, that makes it even better, but that was not what you were looking for, it was just a nice bonus.

    It's hard to explain my train of thought, but I honestly don't think it will be hard to find what you need at all.
     
  9. fnwc

    fnwc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    This is simply not true.


     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  10. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Isn't this like saying that ebay couldn't work, since there are just so many different things to buy? "How do people differentiate between 5000 people all selling Nike sneakers? Doesn't some chinese shoe farmer just undercut everyone else?" Well yeah. Sometimes. And yet people still use ebay by the millions.

    Some people search endlessly to find the perfect item at the lowest price. some people search a little bit and find something good enough for a decent price. Others fall in between.

    Some people sell things and don't post very good listings and don't get a lot of views and don't get the best price. Other people are power sellers and are very good at promoting their wares and get better prices.

    So what. That's just human nature.


    Saying that a D3 AH wouldn't be perfect for every item, for every buyer and seller, in every possible way isn't an argument against a D3 AH. It's an argument against every market ever devised on the Earth. Nothing is perfect or frictionless, and yet markets function everywhere, well enough. The D3 AH doesn't have to read my mind and bring me the perfect item at the lowest price, or the perfect buyer with the highest price. It just has to provide a decent way to exchange items that people can learn to live with. And it'll be infinitely better than the D2 system.
     
  11. Ipos

    Ipos IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Thing is, there aren't nikes with 10% faster run/walk and another with half freeze duration on top of their 10% MF.
    You find your model and order it by price, done.
     
  12. Vargarr

    Vargarr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    I dunno, I feel like an AH would move closer to games like WoW, which I don't really want D3 to be known for "just another knock off of that game WoW" which is another Blizzard product. Not that, that is important, but the idea of finding items through a community or by yourself is what made me fond of D2. It highlighted the roles of clans in SC and D2, which is what Bnet has inadvertently done right.
     
  13. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    But there are Nike's with spring soles, extra cushion, lace-less, different designs / fabric, etc. It isn't like Flux is suggesting all you type is "shoe" in something the equivalent of eBay. You type your "model" and go straight to what you want.

    If you want a CoA, type in "Crown of Ages". If you want a 20cast sorc amy with mana and regen, type "Sorceress Caster Amulet", and look at the various crafts.

    Search engines are becoming quite efficient. At the very least, such a feature is dynamic enough to be focused more and more, possibly accepting fan-made names such as CoA or Shako (without showing all white shakos or a blue "crown" that's indestructible. :jig:)

    It was also extremely clunky and uncoordinated. It made finding your item an absolute mess. Clans certainly helped when farming for the clan, but the average user, or just a vet who isn't in a clan, sought a different way to trade--usually forums. Trading in D2 was broken, and that's not something I want a game to be known for. It is means taking influence from somewhere else, fine. For the record, anything even close to an AH won't be a WoW rip off. Auctions have existed for millennia. WOW didn't revolutionize it or popularize it. D3 and WoW can draw from the same source without co-mingling.


     
  14. direfire

    direfire IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.




    I would like to see a small AH in the game for just static items and when you want to trade for the real loot you turn to a similar idea as the "hoaxter" said, the Market place.

    There's no need to show a player runes, mats and gems? in the trade window.
    Instead slab those rares and legendaries in there instead. and (fingers crossed - ethernals)


     
  15. TheMythe

    TheMythe Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Spens

    Spens IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    I'd like confirmation on the thousands of affixes. That sounds pretty cool.

    Problem is, are they all useful? Seems like the affix pool could be diluted with a bunch of bad affixes. Happened to rares in LOD.
     
  17. Siege Valgore

    Siege Valgore IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    2-5 Million players selling dozens of items wont work? Why not? 10-13 Million players selling HUNDREDS of items worked in Wow.

    I see the Chinese farms ordeal but that is always an "Issue" ANYTIME you implement any sort of economy in a game.

    Searching will be easy. You wouldn't search by level, but by Stat, true. Why would that be so difficult. I want a Cross bow, with a Min Dex of 35 and a Max of 35 that has MF. Sure it might take a minute or two to put in all the stats and specs you are looking for, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work. It absolutely could work.

    I don't see how this would be any different than a WoW auction house. I would imagine though, if they WERE going to implement one, they might wait until more countries come online to make more use out of the system.
     
  18. Spens

    Spens IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    There were hundreds of servers with their own auction houses. Almost every item in WoW had non-variable mods on it. There are some gaping differences in itemization between the two games.



     
  19. Siege Valgore

    Siege Valgore IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Ahhhh a good point which I definitely overlooked :p


     
  20. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Why an Auction House is IMPOSSIBLE.

    I am not seeing the impossible filter argument at all.

    Set filters by item slot, class, tier, color. You can now narrow it down to swords, rings, tier 15 pants, blues or legendaries. Pick any base item type with a few clicks.

    Next, have filters for property type - casting speed, +% damage, etc. Allow multiple filters to speed up searching for items (I want spellpower and casting speed for my melee Wizard). Include some sorting buttons - from highest to lowest, prioritize by order in which you select filters.

    Next, for people who know what they are looking for, allow simply typing in the name of the affixes/suffix; or unique items you want.

    I would be plenty satisfied with just that, and I am sure I made horrible mistakes of inefficiency that a team of professionals can isolate and fix.
     

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