i think we are talking in terms of pvp. otherwise why would u want a 4 framer? in pvm u could get away with a 6 framer if u had to. and the eth gt > eth tomb reaver, because of one main thing. range. range 5 > all. all the dmg means nothing if u can't get in range to hit.FattyMcGee said:for pvp yea, for pvm nope, no way.