which theory do u believe in?

Fallen_62

Diabloii.Net Member
which theory do u believe in?

it was brought up in the black hole thread... so, do u believe in the big bang theory or do u think that a god (or gods) created the universe, the world, us, etc...

as for myself... it used to be a god, but then i started asking questions about him/it, and now i believe more in the big bang theory and evolution...

and from anakha123456789's comment in the black hole thread, we might have had this discussion before, so if we did, let me know, and we can have a mod remove it if people want...
 

Amra

Diabloii.Net Member
Why are you trying to limit God?

If you believe in God, then you can accept that he can create however he wants to.

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
 

Fallen_62

Diabloii.Net Member
Amra said:
Why are you trying to limit God?

If you believe in God, then you can accept that he can create however he wants to.

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
see, after i started to ask questions and got no real answers, i was duobting if there was one or not... i honestly have no idea if there is or not... some things make sense, while others just dont... hence agnosticism

Smelly said:
I personally believe it's all science, from start to finish. It's a pretty horrible way to look at things, because I do wish there was more magic and fantasy in this world, but alas there is not.
i agree with u, to a point... science is not a horrible way to look at things... i love looking at things scientifically, and i just cant quite grasp the idea that a being just up and waved his hand and there we were
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
The whole idea of this is mind boggling, in all honesty. I believe in the big bang and the big crunch theory, in respects to the new research, I would also say that the whole universe being torn to shreds in 30 billion years another possibility. Universe expands, universe retracts, process starts over again.

The whole idea this brings to mind is just how long this has been going on... how many "Big Bangs" have there been? And for us to think that a God created all of the universe, it makes me wonder. Are we so special that God created our universe just for us, forsaking any other forms of life? If there was a race of alien beings that conquested other planets, would they not have been made and blessed by God? Does God only recognize Earth creatures, and Humans? And only straight humans and religious people who believe in him, at that? I've been told I was going to hell for not believing in God, and it got a few laughs from me.

I personally believe it's all science, from start to finish. It's a pretty horrible way to look at things, because I do wish there was more magic and fantasy in this world, but alas there is not.
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
Amra said:
Why are you trying to limit God?

If you believe in God, then you can accept that he can create however he wants to.

God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the Big Bang theory.
 

maccool

Diabloii.Net Member
Munch said:
Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with the Big Bang theory.
That's true only if you confine your definition to the animal kingdom. If you accept that the Universe has changed over time, then the Big Bang theory is perfectly acceptable in the context of the evolution of the Universe.
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

Diabloii.Net Member
I believe the universe was created via the Big Bang. As far fetched as that theory may sometimes sound, I find it infinitely more believeable than any theory which suggests a god or higher power or supernatural whatever had anything to do with it.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
giantpinkbunnyhead said:
As far fetched as that theory may sometimes sound....
The "proof" is actually pretty outstanding. Universe expanding, speed at which universe is expanding is increasing, ect... I'm starting to believe the big crunch more and more.
 

Fallen_62

Diabloii.Net Member
Smelly said:
The "proof" is actually pretty outstanding. Universe expanding, speed at which universe is expanding is increasing, ect... I'm starting to believe the big crunch more and more.
whats the big crunch? never heard of that one before?
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
maccool said:
That's true only if you confine your definition to the animal kingdom. If you accept that the Universe has changed over time, then the Big Bang theory is perfectly acceptable in the context of the evolution of the Universe.
You could sort of counter that by saying the universe is actually doing the opposite of evolving. The stars are blinking out, galaxies are dying, we're possibly 30 billion years away from destruction...

You could see the universe being at it's peak when it's in the form of the huge gas ball before the big bang, and after a big bang, the only thing the Universe is doing is falling from it's ladder, only to hit the ground and reach the top again.

:scratch:
 

Munch

Diabloii.Net Member
maccool said:
If you accept that the Universe has changed over time, then the Big Bang theory is perfectly acceptable in the context of the evolution of the Universe.
No. That's an incredibly confounded definition of evolution. It's also self-contradictory. The universe, by definition, is inclusive of all of creation. There are not multiple universes, as far as we know or can predict. Evolution implies that there is some sort of competion - and if the universe changes by some sort of evolutionary process, it must be competing with other universes. If you want to use that term, you'd have to apply a lot of conditionals and explanations.

Is this more accurate:

The Big Bang theory has nothing to do with the theory of evolution.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Fallen_62 said:
whats the big crunch? never heard of that one before?
From my understanding, it's like a rubberband. First you have the big bang. The universe starts expanding, creating galaxies, ect.

After some point after expanding at a rapid rate, the universe then slows down and stops.

After that, everything is pulled back into the middle as fast as it expanded at it's highest point. Don't worry, by this time pretty much all the stars will have died out. Anyways, the whole universe is pulled back to it's starting point... and a few billion years later, another big bang.

Edit: I like Munch's explanation much better than mine. :thumbsup:
 

toader

Banned
I believe in evolution, and I also believe in the Big Bang theory. But I beleive that it was the work of God.

I dont think that the universe goes on a contract and expand cycle. I think that it is constantly expanding. There is really no reason for it to contract. It is hard to fathom the infinity of the universe, that is unless you beleive in multiple universess and they expand into one another...which I dont really think is true.
 

toader

Banned
Fallen_62 said:
whats the big crunch? never heard of that one before?

Found this article.....it covers alot of what were talking about here:

The Big Crunch

by: John Falco Jr.

As the energy of the sun covers our great earth, new life is constantly flourishing. This life has a beginning. It constantly grows till a point is reached where growth is no longer feasible. Soon after this point, just as quickly as it was born, it will perish. One would think that a life cycle such as this is miniscule in comparison to that of our vast universe. Oddly enough, scientists say that they may be closer related than we think.

According the modern cosmology, the universe began about 15 billion years ago in an even known as the Big Bang. The Big Bang all started from a small point of “nothing†in a space of “nothing.†It was not a space similar to a black area in the universe. Not only did matter not exist, but also time was non-existent. Suddenly, the small point exploded and began expanding. It has been expanding ever since. Comparing spectra red shifts of galaxies produced this theory. The red shifts present could very well be the result of universal expansion.

Through different reactions in this expanding “balloon†of time and matter, our galaxies, stars, and planets were born. As the universe expands, more and more matter is created.

Scientists have speculated that the exponential expansion of the universe has stopped and it is slowing down. Could this be the beginning of the end? Could this result in an enormous crash of all matter and time into the same point of “nothing†from which the Big Bang occurred?â€

Scientists wonder the same thing. That is why they have proposed a theory called the “Big Crunch.†The Big Crunch theory states that if the density of matter in the universe is sufficiently large, gravitational forces between the matter will eventually cause the universe to stop expanding, and then to start falling back in upon itself. It will eventually end in a second cataclysmic event such as the Big Bang.

The Big Crunch theory is completely dependant on whether or not matter is dense enough in our universe. If astronomers calculate the quantity of matter in all visible stars and galaxies, then this will be much too little to stop expansion, let alone start contraction. Recent observations have shown that there is much more matter in the universe than can be seen with the human eyes. Scientists have observed light from stars bending around what seem to be black bodies. Recent observations indicate billions of dwelling stars in between galaxies. Many more stars than expected. Galaxies also have too little visible matter to produce the reactions that they produce. Because of this, galaxies must be full of invisible matter know as dark matter. This is matter of which no one knows the nature. What is known is that according to calculations, 90 to 99 percent of all matter in the known universe could be of this kind. Actually, scientists have no idea of the total quantity of matter in the universe.

What scientists do know is that if the average density of matter across space is greater than the critical density, then the universe will eventually stop expanding. After it has stop expanding, many drastic events will begin to happen. First, the gravity between neighboring galaxies will begin pulling them together. This will replace the once red shifts of expansion with blue shifts of contraction. As the universe contracts the space in which photons have to travel will shorten, therefore, shortening their wavelengths. This will cause their energy to increase and the temperature of the radiation field to increase.

Roughly 70 million years before the Big Crunch the radiation field temperature will be up to 300 K. Galaxies will be so crowded that the night sky will be as bright as day. With about a second to go before the Big Crunch, the radiation field temperature would be over 1010 K. Finally, all matter and time will be crushed into the same point of singularity from which it was born in the Big Bang.

For now, the Big Crunch theory should not be a major concern in the life of anyone. If this crunch of all that is existent does happen, it will not happen for a while. The universe expansion would not even come to a halt for another seven hundred fifty quadrillion (7.5x1017) years. Then you have yet another seven hundred fifty quadrillion years before the universe will once again become an infinitely small point of infinite density and infinite temperature.
That should clear it up for you.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
toader said:
I believe in evolution, and I also believe in the Big Bang theory. But I beleive that it was the work of God.

I dont think that the universe goes on a contract and expand cycle. I think that it is constantly expanding. There is really no reason for it to contract. It is hard to fathom the infinity of the universe, that is unless you beleive in multiple universess and they expand into one another...which I dont really think is true.
Well if this were true, and the universe was expanding indefinately (which it's not) then we would pretty much totally die off. Once all the stars blink out and die, the universe will be one cold and lonely place because not much would survive. But given the idea of everything being litterally torn to shreds in 30 billion years, I doubt there is need for the stars to blink out to kill us.

There is a real good reason for it to contract, and that is to start the cycle again. What good is an empty, dead, cold universe? To give another universe a chance. It totally makes sense. And the phrase "was the work of God" makes me cringe. I hate it when religion mixes with science. They just do not go together.
 

Geeno

Diabloii.Net Member
I think the big bang theory proves the god theory.

Edit: well it doesnt prove anything, but it gives a good enough excuse.
 

Smelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Geeno said:
I think the big bang theory proves the god theory.

Edit: well it doesnt prove anything, but it gives a good enough excuse.
How? What good excuse is there? What makes God immune to the effects of the Big Bang and the Big Crunch? Why can't God be sucked into a black hole? Oh, that's right... now I remember.
 

toader

Banned
Smelly said:
Well if this were true, and the universe was expanding indefinately (which it's not) then we would pretty much totally die off. Once all the stars blink out and die, the universe will be one cold and lonely place because not much would survive. But given the idea of everything being litterally torn to shreds in 30 billion years, I doubt there is need for the stars to blink out to kill us.

There is a real good reason for it to contract, and that is to start the cycle again. What good is an empty, dead, cold universe? To give another universe a chance. It totally makes sense. And the phrase "was the work of God" makes me cringe. I hate it when religion mixes with science. They just do not go together.
What proof do you have that the universe isnt expanding indefinatly? Its fine if you think that the universe isnt expanding indefinatly, you you cant just say "its not." New stars can be born, new galaxies and solar system made, there is no need for it to contract. I do understand the crunch theory of contraction, its just not what I beleive. Because of the fact that stars can form inside galaxies and solar systems around those stars, I dont think the universe will ever be a "empty, cold, dead" place.

And my phrase, "work of God"....I dont really care if it makes you cringe. There is no reason that science cant mix with religion. It is pigheaded and stubborn to think that they cant. If you are atheist, fine, then you dont beleive in any religion at all...so it CANT mix in your world, because it doesnt exist. But there are many of us who beleive that "science" is a term that has been put on the works of God, they are one in the same.
 

toader

Banned
Smelly said:
How? What good excuse is there? What makes God immune to the effects of the Big Bang and the Big Crunch? Why can't God be sucked into a black hole? Oh, that's right... now I remember.

You're assuming that God has a mass and a density, and that in heavenly plane of existence that things follow the same laws of physics as they do in our world. Noone knows.
 
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