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Which skill configuration for my bone/summon hybrid

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Untitled, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Untitled

    Untitled IncGamers Member

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    Which skill configuration for my bone/summon hybrid

    Hello, I' m just curious about what skill placement i should do for my bone/summon hybrid. Currently, I see two alternatives

    Choice 1:
    20 Bone Spear
    20 Bone spirit
    10 Bone wall
    20 Skeleton Mastery
    20 Skeletons
    1 in rest except the 3 poison, attract, fg, and confuse.

    Choice 2:
    20 bone spear
    20 bone spirit
    20 bone wall
    10 skeleton mastery
    20 skeletons

    My question is, would 10 more points in bone wall really be worth it for losing 10 from skeleton mastery?

    Also, how dose a pure bonemencer do in PvM and mf. I mean 20 teeth, 20 bspear and bspirit, and 20 bonewall. How dose the pure bonemencer compare to the bone/summon hybrid.

    Any help or tip is appreciated.
     
  2. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Even on a normal summoner, Corpse Explode is your real killer unless you have crazy gear. 1/20 is all you need in skeletons to make them into strong meatshields capable of keeping enemies contained and they still do decent supplemental damage when they gang up on enemies. I'd go with maxing all bone synergies and focusing your gear on boneskills first. With an AoKL and a decent shield on switch for prebuffing, the skeletons will do fine.
     
  3. Untitled

    Untitled IncGamers Member

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    Hm.... if I'm going against super unique, all my skeletons will be ganging on one guy. Wouldn't that be equivalent to lots and lots of damage over time? Especially with amp and a might merc?

    Also, this guy will either do one or two things. The first is running super uniques, and the other is running pit/countess. Which built will be better?

    Thanks for the help.
     
  4. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls IncGamers Member

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    My pure bone does good for pvm...though it helps to have a act2 NM def merc with insight...for the meditation to always keep you in mana.

    What you will want to do is get all your bone synergies taken care of first though before you go and invest into the skeletons and mastery...can't tell you how much easier it would be for you to do so when your in hell...especially if your using marrowalks.

    With + skills from my equipment and with marrowalks...I have a +14 to mastery without any points into it so far becuase I'm going to finish up my last bone synergy in bone wall before I do any summons.

    HoS
     
  5. goofycaca

    goofycaca IncGamers Member

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    I disagree with everybody here basically.

    My first ladder character was a bone/summoner hybrid and I was able to clear hell baal by level 82.

    Max your skellies and skellie mastery first. This is by far your main attack and killing power.

    Following that I maxed bone spear and spirit. Without full synergies they will never be your main weapon. But they will do enough damage to aid your merc in making the first kill for your army, getting you underway that much faster.

    I did include some curses and the typical summon resist for my build but avoided bone prison for the chance to use the marrowwalks. I did not use bone wall as much as I could have, instead opting to maximize bone spear synergies first.

    Once again, skellies will by your main attack and maxing them first is the priority, skipping the mages and anything above. Once you've maxed those two skills start working your bone skills. They are only secondary because you'll never max out the synergies so keep an eye on your skellies. Summoner first, boner second.
     
  6. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    With decent plus skills, the difference between 20 and 1 in skeleton mastery makes roughly 25-30% difference in damage. That's a difference of about 200 points per skeleton with +skills around +15 which would add up above and beyond a juicey bonespear if skeleton AR and attack rate wasn't so crappy. If this guy has an Infinity Polearm, it might tip the balance in favor of the skeletons but for the lesser twinked I think he's going to be better off with bonemancer that uses skeletons than a skellimancer that uses bone.
     
  7. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

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    I went for Choice 1 this ladder season and this necro is my main mf char hehe. If you want rough damage output estimates for a poorman's and richman's set up i had gathered my findings/tactics here:

    http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=338630

    Also with 48-75 fcr i find it adequate for PvM item running/questing and i went for strong skellies as a platform :D Spear pierces many monsters with good aim and i must say i have no problems running any act boss in hell and any area. Monsters that are magic immune like Horadrim Ancients and Plague Bearers (zombie class) get run over by minions hehe.
     
  8. xeyloderixed

    xeyloderixed IncGamers Member

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    i vote 1, because you dont really need the bone spells anyway to finish the game. imho it is easier to quest with skellies than a synergized spear/spirit, especialy untwinked.

    oh, and i usually just use spear, so id max bwall before spirit for the armor synergy
     
  9. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Here's the way I look at it.

    Who gets 99% of the first kills if you're playing a skellimancer without the insane runewords?

    The merc.

    What gets all the kills after that? Corpse Explode.

    Skeletons are for tanking. Their damage does add up against bosses and they do kill tougher monsters eventually, but I'll bet dollars for donuts bone skills at close to max synergies with decent bonemancer gear still kills bosses faster and you'll get that first kill sooner with strong boneskills than with weaker bone skills. If you're just going to use skeletons and aren't using Infinity and Faith or Beast I just don't think the mastery is really worth it.
     
  10. Quietus

    Quietus IncGamers Member

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    I think, ultimately, it comes down to the gear available. If you're playing untwinked, as I believe has been said above me - skeletons are teh shiz. I've been playing a summoner on ladder to get myself started, and yes, one of my friends lent me an enigma until I can get one of my own. But I'll be damned if those skeletons don't work real nice with a might merc.

    On the other hand, if gear isn't an issue, then ask yourself this - do you play offensive or defensively? If you play offensively, then you'll be happier with bone skills. Defensively, you WILL want those skeletons to be nice'n beefy.

    Personally? I'd beef out the skeletons. With an insight polearm on your merc if you're playing ladder, you'll have a hard time NOT being able to afford to spam spears like a madman.
     
  11. goofycaca

    goofycaca IncGamers Member

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    This, I believe, is the main point.

    If you have the time and equipment to get all of the best gear and runewords available, then the sky is the limit and you don't really need to ask anybody's advice here.

    All the advice that I give here assumes two things, solo games and untwinked/poor.

    A summon/bone hybrid equiped with no runewords (none whatsoever) and few uniques can complete the game by level 84. If you have all the fancy equipment that's great. If you have to wait for them to beef up your bone skills then you're just behind the power curve.

    Skellies and mastery first for any type of summoner or hybrid that includes summoning. LoM being the obvious exception.
     
  12. Untitled

    Untitled IncGamers Member

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    Thanks everyone, I think I will stick with the alternative 1.

    I'm pretty poor. (Although I do have morrowalk, arm of king leroic, trang's armor, and the runes for insight and white. Still need find good socket items for those).

    Maybe when I’m richer, with Enigma, psb gc and everything, I will make a pure bonemencer. But for pit/countess/baal runs I guess first choice will do just fine. Thanks all.
     
  13. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    I'm of completely the opposite opinion. Full mastery for Twinked, not untwinked. You can literally shop for enough +skills to make 1/20 skeletons survivable but you need really impressive gear to make them deadly in their own right. Bone Spear on the other hand only needs decent +skills and FCR.
     
  14. Highball

    Highball IncGamers Member

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    So, what if you DO have LoM? Go all out on Bone synergies?
     
  15. goofycaca

    goofycaca IncGamers Member

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    LoM has completely diffierent playability. I believe that RickCarson wrote up a guide for it.

    SM and Mages maxed are absolutely essential. If you're not going to max SM then you may as well choose a different, much easier, necro.

    I believe that Rick prefered bone wall for area control so I would assume that synergies would be adjusted accordingly (ie. a defensive take on the bone hybrid).
     

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