When synegies take over

[darnocpdx]

When synegies take over

LDR=level of diminishing returns

This chart should prove to be useful when planning your stat. placement.

Spell		     LDR

Teeth	        6
Bone Armor	1
Poison Dagger	11
Poison Exp.	  NA
Bone Spear	 15
Poison Nova	 10
Bone Spirit	   18
Bone Wall	  8
Bone Prision	  9

Enjoy I hope you find it helpful.

Sorry my rows came out so sloppy, but you get the idea.

 

[FieryPlague]

Erm, to clarify, when we hit that lvl to the spell, its better to pump synergies then the actualy spell?

 

[darnocpdx]

Yes, once your spell is at the mentioned level more damage/hp will be gained by investing in synergies rather than the spell itself. Levels were configured using minium spell damage. I used minium spell damage for computing these based on the fact that the higher your minium damage the higher your average damage will be.

now for the nearlt uses summon chart

And now for the nearly useless one

Clay Golem
	Life (BG)	19	
	Def (IG)	1
	Dam (FG)	21+???

Blood Golem
	ATR (CG)	1 (I assume,???)
	DEF (IG)	1
	Dam (FG)	NA

Iron Golem
	ATR (CG)	1 (I assume ???)
	Life (BG)	1
	Dam (FG)	1

Blood Golem
	ATR (CG)	1
	Life (BG)	1
	Def (IG)	1

 

[Myrakh-2]

I used minium spell damage for computing these based on the fact that the higher your minium damage the higher your average damage will be.

Did you verify this with the spells in question? Example:

Some 1-1999 lightning spell does 1000 avergage
Another 10-20 lightning spell does 15 average, but you would consider it superior

Now I know that the necro spells don't have 1-xxxx ranges... so you are probably right with your assumption.

 

[darnocpdx]

i should also add that with poison dagger its not always in your best intrest to invest in synergies since you don't get any durration bonuses with synergies which can increase your over all damage more than the synergy bonuses.

 

[darnocpdx]

Did you verify this with the spells in question? Example:

Some 1-1999 lightning spell does 1000 avergage
Another 10-20 lightning spell does 15 average, but you would consider it superior

Now I know that the necro spells don't have 1-xxxx ranges... so you are probably right with your assumption.

It's fairly common sence that the higher your lower damage the higher your average damage. For example if a weapon hits for 50-100 damage your average damage is 75. Raise the lower damage by 25 and your average damage is now 92. Now just raise the higher damage by 25 and your average damage is 87.

In y0our example the the 1-1999 average would be around 1000 damage. It's no contest that it would be the superior spell. And if any of these spells were set up like lighting is I would use the max figure since the lower firgures tend to be much smaller in gain.

 

[Myrakh-2]

For example if a weapon hits for 50-100 damage your average damage is 75. Raise the lower damage by 25 and your average damage is now 92.

By what calculation? 50+25=75, so you are now at 75-100. Average is 87.5

Now just raise the higher damage by 25 and your average damage is 87.

Range will be 50-125, with average 87.5. You are correct here.

This can, btw, be shown in a simpler way:

average := (lower+higher)/2

average1 := ((lower+increase)+higher)/2
average2 := (lower+(higher+increase))/2

As you can easily see, it's the same in both cases.

However, you are still ignoring one point: for most spells, BOTH the lower and the higher end are increased. If the increase is the same on both sides it doesn't matter whether you look at low, high, or average damage.

This is what I was actually asking: did you verify that you can use minimum damage instead of average damage to get these levels?

 

[darnocpdx]

By what calculation? 50+25=75, so you are now at 75-100. Average is 87.5



Range will be 50-125, with average 87.5. You are correct here.

This can, btw, be shown in a simpler way:

average := (lower+higher)/2

average1 := ((lower+increase)+higher)/2
average2 := (lower+(higher+increase))/2

As you can easily see, it's the same in both cases.

However, you are still ignoring one point: for most spells, BOTH the lower and the higher end are increased. If the increase is the same on both sides it doesn't matter whether you look at low, high, or average damage.

This is what I was actually asking: did you verify that you can use minimum damage instead of average damage to get these levels?

yeah my bad on the math...the averages are the same.

And no i didn't do any of the calulations on the max damage or average damage. Feel free if you'd like to, but for me i just prefer when thinking of my damage potential I'm more interested in the minium I'll do (unless it's lightining type). For me I'd rather know,expect, and build thinking of the worst case scenerio. After all, your ability as a player is typically better if you know what your limits are. I base nearly all my build ideas around not what I can do, but what I know I will do, and hence I focus on miniums.

But feel free to add a chart with the averages and maxes if you like. However I think you'll find (I figured it out once I think ) that typically the necro damage spells max and minium follow the same rules for level and damage advancement.

 

[darnocpdx]

I just checked the damage charts and there is for the bone spirt and bone spear a difference between lower and hihger. For every level of bone spirt is raised by 19 points the upper 20, like wise bone spear is 9,10. Not enough of a differece to change the chart.

And actually for Nova it looks like the minium is raised higher per level than the max is (I only checked between two levels). you could probably average the same if you quit boosting PN one level less than I specified (but no guarentee.)