What's wrong with GM?

Dirty_Zulu

Diabloii.Net Member
What's wrong with GM?

I am tempted to buy a GM product with their new "everyone gets a GM employee price".

A comparable $32,000 car was quoted at $27,000 then another $6000 in rebates. Final price is like $21,000. :eek: :eek: So I am getting a $30k+ car for the price of a Honda Civic. hmmm...

GM products are still crap. So stay safe with a Honda or go for a discounted Buick?
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

Diabloii.Net Member
I wouldn't buy an American car to save my life. Everything rolling out from the big 3 these days looks like they were designed by art school dropouts. I've not seen an attractive model from US shores since the early 90's.

As far as reliability: The longer it holds up, the longer you are lured into driving something repulsive.

Of course, this is all subjective. However, Numerous reports have time and time again shown imports, especially from Japan, to be far more reliable, and they also don't look like tractor puke. Resale value tends to be better too.

If I were you... I'd avoid GM like the plague.
 

Damotta

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, you can save money up front by buying an American car, or you can save money on maintenance/repair costs later with a Japanese car. From what I've seen, the repair costs on American cars who constantly break down cost you a lot more in the long run than do reliable cars that might have cost a little more initially.

Oh, and if you want to be really smart, buy a used car. Buying a new car is one of the worst investments that can be made.
 

Amra

Diabloii.Net Member
My Chevy held up quite nice with just normal maintaince until I broke the motor at about 213,000 miles.

My Jeep is now over 181,000 miles.


Damotta said:
Oh, and if you want to be really smart, buy a used car. Buying a new car is one of the worst investments that can be made.
Well said. It's not even an investment unless you are buying it for a business or something like that.
 

SelfBaisResistor

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm sad since they don't make Oldmobiles anymore. I'd get another one of those if they still made them, were a bit more fuel efficient and if I could afford it.
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
I wouldnt be so negative on GM. They aren't the number one car company in the world for nothing.

But on the "everyone gets the employee discount," i think they just build the price in so you still end up paying the same. It's just a marketing technique. However, my dad has a GM credit card so he can build up GM cash up to $2000 I think. We might get a GM car later on.
 

Steve_Kow

Banned
Most of the quality problems with American cars are a thing of the past. It takes a long time to get rid of a reputation though.

I've had more problems with my VW than I had with either my Ford or Dodge.
 

Dirty_Zulu

Diabloii.Net Member
mhl12 said:
I wouldnt be so negative on GM. They aren't the number one car company in the world for nothing.
If you consider--

Buick+Pontiac+Chevy+Cadillac+Saturn+Olds+Hummer+Saab > Honda or Toyota or Ford individually... then yea.
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
true but whats the second largest car company in the world? Ford, another American car company. But then again, Ford does own Volvo and Mazda.
 

Freemason

Banned
mhl12 said:
I wouldnt be so negative on GM. They aren't the number one car company in the world for nothing.
Microsoft is the #1 software company in the world.
AOL is the #1 ISP company in the world.
Starbucks is the #1 coffehouse in the world.

Being the #1 company doesn't necessarily mean a quality product.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
I dunno, the new Dodge Charger looks like it might be cool. And I like the new Mustang. And the Neon SRT-4 blows away a Civic si.
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
Freemason said:
Microsoft is the #1 software company in the world.
AOL is the #1 ISP company in the world.
Starbucks is the #1 coffehouse in the world.

Being the #1 company doesn't necessarily mean a quality product.
No, but being #1 still means that more people uses their products than any other company's products which can only mean that people still are satisfied with these products.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't know if there are any tariffs on import cars, or the parts from foreign cars that get assembled in the US, but that can cause people to buy an inferior car because it is cheaper.
 

PatMaGroin

Diabloii.Net Member
Well in response to the thread starter, I wouldnt buy a Buick. Period. What kind of car are you lookin to buy, and in what price range?

In response to the rest of you, yes, GM is the #1 car company in the world. They also operate at a loss. In the first quarter fiscal year for 05, they lost 1.1 billion dollars. If it wasnt for their finance branch (GMAC) it would be much more than that. All GM products are not crap. Nor do all American cars break down more easily than all foreign cars. Anything you buy these days, with regular scheduled maintenance, will hold up forever, provided you dont drive the hell out of it.

It would probably be a smart idea to buy a slightly used car and let someone else bite the depreciation.
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

Diabloii.Net Member
mhl12 said:
No, but being #1 still means that more people uses their products than any other company's products which can only mean that people still are satisfied with these products.
Not True. It can mean many additional things.

It could mean: The #1 company simply made better offers to corporations making fleet purchases, where they don't care about quality as much as quantity. They may not like the cars, but they were cheaper and that was the deal closer.

It could mean: The #1 company simply has no (or very few) equivalent competitors. Look at Microsoft.

It could mean: The #1 company simply had more product available. There will always be a Corvette for sale. But say you really wanted the new Aston Martin. Oops... they sold out. You might be a little more inclined to buy the Vette now, even though it wasn't your first choice.

Being #1 means that they are better at selling quantity, not quality.
 

Garbad_the_Weak

Diabloii.Net Member
Steve_Kow said:
Most of the quality problems with American cars are a thing of the past.
Generally true, but GM tends to be a little worse than Honda, Toyota, or Ford. I suggest reading consumer reports or something on the car you are considering. Expert and unbiased advice never hurts, especially for a major purchase.

Garbad
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
no offense but I tend to find that consumer reports tend to be unreliable because of that so many people who write the reports don't actually own the car itself. I suggest magazines like car and driver and their online forum as well.
 

PatMaGroin

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah check out Motortrend, Car and Driver, or Automobile. Road and Track seems to be more for the performance oriented though.

Anyway, Your average GM car is marked up about 8000 (estimate) over cost of production, then given a 7000 rebate to make it look like a good deal.

On the other hand, a Toyota Corolla is listed at 500 dollars over the cost of production, based simply on the fact that it is a good product and it will sell.

I live in Texas, and about 7 out of 10 vehicles are either Fords or GMs, most of them trucks and SUVs. My family owns a GMC Yukon and I am extremely satisfied with it. Yes you can find a full size SUV for less than the 44k we spent on the Yukon, but they wont come with a 300 horse V8 that will smoke most of my friend's cars.

If you're gonna buy a truck to work out of, the last generation of Ford trucks would be my number one choice, and I hate Ford. Aside from that, its not economically smart to buy an American made car based solely on the rebates, as the thread starter was talking about. Instead of a Buick, buy an Accord, get better gas milage, performance, and resale value.
 

skihard

Banned
Well actually the big 3 are no longer the big 3 of old. The current big 3 are GM, Toyota, Ford, followed by DCX, Honda. Also GM is more than the ones listed earlier. GM is also Opel. Ford is also Range Rover, Jaguar, Lincoln, Mercury, Volvo. Toyota is also Lexus or Infinity (don’t remember which), Scion.

Toyota and Honda are almost as American made as GM, Ford, or Dodge depending on the model. Two of the BMW SUV’s are better than 50% American made and even Nissan’s Trucks / SUV’s are more American than import.

The reason is because of import laws enacted in the mid 80’s. The Japanese decided after taxes increase the price of their product that they build assembly plants in the US to get around the import laws. The tax on the items to make a car were pennies compared to the tax on the completed car. In doing so, Honda was the first, the Japanese manufactures ended up hiring American workers with Japanese management, they later learned that they could hire local suppliers to produce some of the components instead of shipping them in. The effect from this was that the employees at the assembly plants and the employees of the small suppliers started buying the Japanese cars, not because they cost less but because they were supporting the company putting food on the table. The reason the cars cost less is that most of the smaller suppliers aren’t Union so they don’t have the huge wage over head.

Some of the suppliers that provide parts for Toyota, Honda, Nissan also supply to GM, DCX, and Ford. Sportrack Automotive supplies roof racks to all 6 of the companies I just mentioned. There are others that do the same, so some parts of your car/truck/suv are all made by the same people just assembled at different Companies. Those different companies have different overhead because of things like Unions, Retired workers pensions, Medical and that is what is killing the profits.

GM is spread out to far and pays too much for people that no longer even work for the company, Ford and DXC have the same problems. The new “American Companies†don’t have 30 years of past employees that they are taking care of. Eventually the “Big 3†will come out of the down turn they are in, but it will take time.

In the mean time your are getting just as good a car purchasing the GM as the Honda but instead of GM making a 10% profit off that car they are making a 1% profit by selling at the GM employee rate. Remember a 1% profit is better than a loss from the car going unsold.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Good points skihard. Although, I'm inclined to believe the "Big 3" as it stands now are GM, Toyota, and Honda. Maybe it's just because every other car I see on campus is a Honda. And don't forget, Ford owns Aston Martin and Mazda as well. Lexus is Toyota, and Inifniti is Nissan.
 
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