Whats the point of meteor?

SeCKSEgai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

I'm surprised that for someone touting experience and knowledge, he requires numbers.

For me the proof is basic math and actual use.

I'm not a fan of fire, but for pure boss running (as in Meph/Andy), I've found it the most reliable to use at speed. I don't like Meteor, but there will be situations where it's the most logical choice.

First off, if you don't dump points into it, then it's no surprise to see it as a bad choice. If you go with a straight fire build, then you'll actually get worthwhile damage from it - thus justifying "situational" usage.

As for times when I'd use it over FB - when closing to a reasonable FB distance is far more dangerous than just bombing with meteor. It's easier and more effective to "call in" a meteor strike and teleport out, than it is to fire a few fb, tele away, fire a few more fb, etc.

If you really need to moat, it works well as supplemental damage with FB, but otherwise you can just get in Meph's face and finish him off.
 

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

Delays begin after the action flag, the frame of the animation in which the action is actually executed:

Code:
FRAMES           FCR
Total   Action
--------------------
   13        7     0
   12              9
   11        6    20
   10             37
    9        5    63
    8            105
    7        4   200
Interval between actions = action flag + delay, so Meteor's 30 frame (1.2 second) delay and 63-199 FCR would result in a 35 frame casting interval.

When skills with delays are cast using % Chance to Cast, the delay of the individual skill isn't applied but a global 11 frame delay is applied after the action flag, during which time no active skills can be used: I'd assume that this is the delay which applies when skills with delays are actually cast by the character as well.

This should result in the following with 63-199 FCR resulting in an 8 frame cast rate:

Code:
CASTING                DELAY      METEOR DELAY
----------------------------------------------
 1 Meteor initiated
 5 Meteor cast
 6                      1 Start    1 Start
16                     11 End     11
17 FB initiated                   12
21 FB cast                        16
25 FB initiated                   20
29 FB cast                        24
33 FB initiated                   28
35                                30 End
37 FB cast
----------------------------------------------
41 Meteor initiated
So every 40 frames (1.6 seconds), at best one Meteor and three Fire Balls could be cast, or five Fire Balls. This means Meteor has to do more damage than two Fire Balls every 1.6 seconds to justify not just casting Fire Ball.
 

Millard

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

... Interval between actions = action flag + delay, so Meteor's 30 frame (1.2 second) delay ....
where'd you hear that meteor has a 30 frame delay? it doesn't. And your chart only gives it a 10 frame delay, which it doesn't have either.


 

Scudstorm

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

Thank you onderduiker for the clarification :)

Since now we know that the delay results in Meteor replacing exactly 2 FB in a spell spam chain, we know for certain that Meteor increases dps due to slightly higher damage than 2x FB (assuming both skills maxed) + burning.

where'd you hear that meteor has a 30 frame delay? it doesn't. And your chart only gives it a 10 frame delay, which it doesn't have either.
The 30 frame delay is Meteor's casting delay (time during which you cannot use Meteor or any other skill with a casting delay - such as FO - again), which a lot of sources state as 1.2 seconds, amongst which the easily verifiable Arreat Summit.

In the chart, the delay listed is the global delay (11 frames), during which no skill at all could be used, even the non-casting delay ones such as FB.


 

PetroRabbit

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

Also would like to add that the splash radius of a fireball is 1 yard, and the splash radius of a meteor is 4 yards (all according to arreat summit). So vs packs of monsters, there is an even greater increase in damage spread out between targets.
 

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

where'd you hear that meteor has a 30 frame delay? it doesn't. And your chart only gives it a 10 frame delay, which it doesn't have either.
Although the Arreat Summit isn't always the most accurate source (unfortunately I'll be giving an example below in response to PetroRabbit), Meteor's casting delay is listed on its Casting Delays page, it can be verified by extracting Skills.txt from patch_d2.mpq and viewing it (Meteor has 30 entered in the delay field, meaning its casting delay is 30 frames, or 1.2 (30/25) seconds), its existence can be visibly verified when its skill icon goes red after casting and it cannot be cast briefly, and its length can be measured experimentally using mana regeneration, if need be.

I explained the 11 frame delay (it begins with frame 6 and ends with frame 16: frames 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 add up to 11 frames, not 10) in this paragraph:

When skills with delays are cast using % Chance to Cast, the delay of the individual skill isn't applied but a global 11 frame delay is applied after the action flag, during which time no active skills can be used: I'd assume that this is the delay which applies when skills with delays are actually cast by the character as well.
Based on earlier discussion, I thought it had already been established in this thread that when a skill with a casting delay is cast, that spell and all others with a delay cannot be cast again until that delay expires, and no active skill can be used for a brief period after casting.

Since this 11 frame (0.44 second) delay begins after the action flag, cast rate affects its significance. With 0 FCR, the action flag is in frame 7, the 11 frame delay begins in frame 8 and ends in frame 18, and the casting animation ends in frame 13, so there are only 5 frames (frames 14-18) or 0.2 second after the casting animation ends in which no active skills can be used; with 63-199 FCR, the action flag is in frame 5, the 11 frame delay begins in frame 6 and ends in frame 16, and the casting animation ends in frame 8, so there are 8 frames (frames 9-16) or 0.32 second after the casting animation ends in which no active skills can be used.



Also would like to add that the splash radius of a fireball is 1 yard, and the splash radius of a meteor is 4 yards (all according to arreat summit).
According to Skills.txt, Meteor has a 4 yard (6 sub-tile) damage radius; however, according to Missiles.txt, Fire Ball actually has a 2 2/3 yard (4 sub-tile) damage radius (1 sub-tile is a 2/3 yard by 2/3 yard square). This results in a difference between a 49 sub-tile and 113 sub-tile area (see this radius diagram posted in the Gallery), which means Meteor's radius of effect is approximately 130% or 2.3 times larger.


 

wickedswami

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

Not gonna crunch numbers here, but from personal experience I can say that meteor has it's uses. Some examples:
When killing mephy:
tele up to him, cast meteor
cast static
by the time static has brought him down to approx 50% HP, meteor hits, doing more damage then a fireball would at that point.
It has already been stated before that, at this point, the burning damage is the catch, which makes meteor do more damage then FB when included in the cycle. Even if this isn't the point, the First meteor will make a difference

when countessrunning:
(I know light sorcs do this better, but still:)
tele up to countess, cast meteor, again, static. Once meteor drops, because of the 4 yard AOE and the static, (almost) all units around countess die so merc is free to kill half hp countess. This would take a lot longer with either FB or orb.

Dangerous archer packs
even with epic gear (well, maybe not epic gear, but sth like full tal's, spirit, magefist, 2 sojs and some other stuff) fanat archers or stuff like that can still be dangerous to tank. At that point tele+meteor can be a safe way to deal a reasonable amount of damage.

Big packs
as said before, because of the bigger range, there is simply more damage (radius 4 times bigger means a 16 times bigger surface of damage).
Examples are cows, big boss packs, shenk, eldritch (unless those are FI, i'm not sure), units around nihlatak, throne summons etc.

Packs hidden behind FI
as said before, cast orb on the FI fallens while meteor kills those nasty archers in the back.

when not tp-ing for some reason
examples here are non end-game gear, or HC, where tping is too dangerous, you could walk around a corner and be in front of your merc while seeing some monsters run at you. A well placed meteor before you start walking back can do some serious damage if the monsters clash with your merc right under it.

As you can see, the 'situational' skill can pack quite a punch.
 

FattyMcGee

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Whats the point of meteor?

Thank you very much, onderduiker, for the extra information and clarification.



-f
 
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