What's the FE Bug? And other questions...

Althax

Diabloii.Net Member
What's the FE Bug? And other questions...

I'm still kinda new to Single player stuff so excuse the dumb question. I keep hearing about this FE bug, can anyone explain what that is? I heard Bnet had it fixed but not on SP, what is it exactly?

My other question is that I recently got my first character in SP up to speed. My sorc's been doing Andariel runs for the past couple days and is up to level 55. She's a meteorb and I have been hoping to find a soj but no luck yet. Anyhow, I'm not sure what effect having extra players setting has on the boss drops. I've tried it several times set at 1 and andy will often drop nothing more than a gem or something stupid while other times she drops a bigger stash. I've tried setting it at 3 to 5 and it is a lot more dangerous for me and takes longer but the drops seem to be bigger. So what's the best thing to do? Run faster at 1 player and get some drops with nothing or does adding more players make a big difference?
 

Noodle

Moderator
Althax said:
I'm still kinda new to Single player stuff so excuse the dumb question. I keep hearing about this FE bug, can anyone explain what that is? I heard Bnet had it fixed but not on SP, what is it exactly?

My other question is that I recently got my first character in SP up to speed. My sorc's been doing Andariel runs for the past couple days and is up to level 55. She's a meteorb and I have been hoping to find a soj but no luck yet. Anyhow, I'm not sure what effect having extra players setting has on the boss drops. I've tried it several times set at 1 and andy will often drop nothing more than a gem or something stupid while other times she drops a bigger stash. I've tried setting it at 3 to 5 and it is a lot more dangerous for me and takes longer but the drops seem to be bigger. So what's the best thing to do? Run faster at 1 player and get some drops with nothing or does adding more players make a big difference?
Not a dumb question at all - from what I've read in these forums, and experienced myself, the chance for unique items hits the ceiling at /players 3 - any more than that, and you'll get some more experience, but the item drop will be essentially the same. (IIRC, of course.)

Good luck with your drops!

- Noodle
 

Sledge

Diabloii.Net Member
Althax said:
I'm still kinda new to Single player stuff so excuse the dumb question. I keep hearing about this FE bug, can anyone explain what that is? I heard Bnet had it fixed but not on SP, what is it exactly?
its that one hit kill i got from hell ancients today
 

JicamaEater

Diabloii.Net Member
Higher players settings will increase the chance that an item will drop, which gives you more shots at uniques. The only thing you can do to get more to drop %wise compared to the number of items dropping is MF.

FE bug involves the damage from FE explosions being dealt at improper times...it's very very bad in SP. Unfortunately this has to be explained a LOT, since the search feature on this forum won't allow you to search "Fire" or "FE." If AE or Kremtok reads this, I'd suggest a sticky (or something) that explains the important things about SP like this.
 

AlterEgo

Diabloii.Net Member
JicamaEater said:
If AE or Kremtok reads this, I'd suggest a sticky (or something) that explains the important things about SP like this.
We have about a hundred pages of important things about SP like this. It's called our FAQ.

I've read dozens of threads on the FE topic, and your suggestion specifically many times. My response is always the same. As soon as someone writes a guide/FAQ on that topic I'm eager to link it to the general FAQ. It's been attempted a couple times, but never completed. I'm certainly not qualified to write it! I'm a technical nub :teeth:
 

Noodle

Moderator
OK, maybe I have it right now - /players 3 will max the number of items dropping (maybe?), while any increases past that have severely diminishing returns in terms of item quality.

Something like that, I honestly believe. C'mon, I swear I read something to this effect in here! Someone help a noodle out!

- Noodle
 

Pico Dynamite

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm kinda new to the spf too, and I hear people talk about IIRC and I still don't know what it is, if anyone can help me what would be great! One interesting thing I didn't know was that increased mf doesn't increase much after /player3, but does is apply to 1.09d also?
 

Althax

Diabloii.Net Member
Noodle said:
OK, maybe I have it right now - /players 3 will max the number of items dropping (maybe?), while any increases past that have severely diminishing returns in terms of item quality.

Something like that, I honestly believe. C'mon, I swear I read something to this effect in here! Someone help a noodle out!

- Noodle
Ok then that makes sense I think. If that sets more items dropping then MF will help make them magical/unique/rare/set what have you.
 

Pico Dynamite

Diabloii.Net Member
Ohhhh I see now, I'm not that big on internet lingo past simple things like lol, g2g, gg. Thanks a bunch, my internet lingo just increased!
*Pico Dynamite increased to level 4 in Internet Lingo!*
:lol:
 

NSXdreamer

Diabloii.Net Member
Pico Dynamite said:
Ohhhh I see now, I'm not that big on internet lingo past simple things like lol, g2g, gg. Thanks a bunch, my internet lingo just increased!
*Pico Dynamite increased to level 4 in Internet Lingo!*
:lol:
Don't worry, after sometime hanging around here, you'll know them all. When first registered, I have no clue what they meant either.
 

JicamaEater

Diabloii.Net Member
AlterEgo said:
We have about a hundred pages of important things about SP like this. It's called our FAQ.

I've read dozens of threads on the FE topic, and your suggestion specifically many times. My response is always the same. As soon as someone writes a guide/FAQ on that topic I'm eager to link it to the general FAQ. It's been attempted a couple times, but never completed. I'm certainly not qualified to write it! I'm a technical nub :teeth:
All right, that was a little stupid of me. I get a little angry about this all the time, since the facts are within reach...and everybody just posts threads like this. There's admittedly not a good way to get people to just read the FAQ, and I don't code dig (I can't think of any stats/formulae that are going to drastically change the way I play) but...to explain the FE bug with numbers probably isn't the most important anyway.

There are two posts that sum this up very well. To be honest I think that jiansonz's post (which I'm looking for right now) should be sufficient to describe what the FE bug does. The other one (I don't know who posted it) was also very simple, and more general. The explanation of "When Hit/Death Mods" by someone who I don't know who it was...
"When a monster has "when hit" effects death effects will be released when the monster is hit (i.e. FELE).
A monster with multiple death effects will send out each death effect a number of times equal to the number of death effects." I bolded the bold parts. Don't kill FECE bone fetishes...

I have to go to sleep, so I'll find the jiansonz post tomorrow.

EDIT:Here it is
jiansonz said:
When an FE boss dies, it deals a Corpse Explosion (half physical, half fire damage). If it´s a boss with high life, this can be lethal. This is not a bug. It has always been like this, but since 1.10 brings monsters with higher life, it´s lethal more often now.

The FE bug is when this damage is dealt at times when it´s not supposed to.

* Any FE boss has the potential to do this. It doesn´t always happen, but you never know when. Extra Strong, Might, Fanaticism will all boost the physical damage, while Conviction will boost the fire damage.

* FE + LE bosses: the bolts carry the FE Corpse Explosion damage if you are within Corpse Explosion range. This can be very deadly, already in NM. FE beetles are a special case. Consider them all to be FE + LE, even the minions of an FE boss.

* Mummies: The minions of an FE mummy boss leave a poison cloud upon death that carries the FE explosion damage, even when you are standing still (and thus don´t get poisoned by the cloud). FE mummy bosses are extremely dangerous upon death. You take the FE explosion damage twice if you are too close. I have yet to experience any trouble with mummies (except FELE ones!) as long as you stay away from them when they die.

* Ancients: An FE Ancient will "pulsate" the FE explosion damage often, no matter what he is doing. It may be survivable in Nightmare with very high life/resist/absorb/PDR but it is lethal for most characters there. In Hell, it´s always lethal for any character. Stay out of Corpse Explosion range, and cast a Town Portal when you see an FE Ancient (unless you are absolutely sure you can stay out of range for the entire fight)

* Pindleskin´s Revenge: Shambling undead can normally rise from the dead a while after you kill them. But a boss is an excpetion to this. However, the game handles this in such a way that it immediately "kills" the boss again if it tries to rise. You can´t see anything on the screen but the damage will be dealt. To avoid it, you will have to either 1.) use up the corpse 2.) get close and loot the boss within the first seconds after the death or 3.) wait a loooong time before getting there. The likelyhood of more than 4-5 consecutive "rise from the dead" actions is small.
Anyway, if worst comes to worst we can post this until an even better description comes along (even though this is really good imo).
 

Althax

Diabloii.Net Member
Wow, that's just what I needed. Gives me a lot to look out for since I had no idea about some of that stuff. Thanks for reposting that.
 

ricrestoni

Diabloii.Net Member
Just so you know, RTB or Thrugg popped up on fo these days giving numbers to your questions. In Hell, your aim is to run Mephisto, Diablo and Baal at players 3, and Andariel and Duriel at players 4 (players 5 if it is a first drop). This will remove the chances of no drop, which means that they will drop 6 items all the time. I don't know if these are the same in Nightmare. Higher /players settings only increase difficulty, without increasing items dropped.

On a related note, you should run all other bosses at /players 1 to get good best drops/time. Higher players only increase chances for the minions which are mostly negligible, when it comes to numbers.

About the FE bug, many things are not certain, at least for me, since I heard opposed versions from seemingly great number-crunchers.

1st thing: Is it pure fire or half fire/half physical? Some say it can be normally blocked, others said it is pure fire. I believe it is fire, from what I read.

2nd thing: Is it carried over by poison clouds, frost novas, charged bolts, etc, or are they just some kind of trigger for the bugged explosion to happen, as it seems to be always centered on the bugged monster? I believe they are NOT carried over, but that the different forms of attack are somewhat related to the occurance of the bug.

See, this is my conclusions from what I experienced playing the game and from what I read along the last year. Sure thing is, only Blizzard knows the truth - and they know it, since they fixed it in the realms. Why won't they just tell us?
 

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
I have revived and modified my version of FE info (not only the bug).

1. What is the FE bug?

There are two parts about FE bug.

First, for 100% sure, FE ancients has ability to inflict a massive bugged attack that is capable of one-hit-killing any legitimate character, regardless of defense, fire absorb or resistances. In fact, they do not have to land any hit, FE ancients are capable (and they love to) of releasing the bugged damage regardless what they do (even doing nothing).

Second, there is the never ending argument on other FE uniques than ancients. Few people reported none ancients bosses carried the bugged damage. However, it is a rather rare event, and very hard to verify if not impossible.

Please note that FE boss death blast is deadly, and can one-hit-kill too, but it is not a bug. After all, blizzard did warn us it is deadly.

FE bug has a big impact on gameplay specially in HC. Even in SC, death at high level (in Hell) is very painful due to the lost of experiences.

2. How does it work?

Due to the FE bug, a FE ancient (some believe other bosses as well) applies its death blast damage (at least 1x, there was test reported 2x) within the FE blast range at his/her/its will; no attack or getting hit is required to release the damage.

The following event may carry (not proved yet) some form of bugged damage, so beware:

If the boss has aura like Holy fire, the aura damage may carry more damage than it should. I have seen FE/holy fire boss’ aura does over 500 damage to max resistant build from half screen away in “one hit” myself.


3. so who should I avoid to contact?

Any high life FE boss! The ancients are the worst, so if you see ANY ancient is FE, reroll them. Please note that there is a reported bug that the leap attack ancient can "lock" you in place when he is in air (most likely happen after you cast some form of spell/magic). If that happens, and the ancient is FE, you have no chance to survive.

4. is the FE bug real or just few n00b made it up, because they don't know how to play this game?

The bug is very real. on b.net realm, blizzard fixed it. in SP, they didn't. FE ancients will always use the bugged attack. Random bosses may or may not be bugged, but, don't bet on it! Especially if you play HC.

5. how much damage does the bug do?

It is believed to be the death blast damage (or 2x FE blast damage on ancients) at any time. That’s why high life boss is dangerous while low life boss seems “harmless”. Some believe the bugged damage is half fire, half physical; some believe it could be pure fire. I personally saw something unusual, and I believe at least in very rare (like found a legit ZOD in SP rare) case, it could be pure fire.

Don't forget, on top of the FE bugged damage, you will also take normal damage from the boss if you get hit (which can be deadly by itself).

6. So I'm hopeless against FE?

No, to avoid this bug just stay away of FE blast range all the time. The range is 2.6 yards in normal, 3.3 in nightmare and 4.0 in hell. So stay away from at least 3.3 yards in late NM, and 4 yards in Hell. Also your merc and other pets are immune to the bug. If you play melee, try to have some kind of ranged attack on switch (eg. My MA assassin uses a xbow on switch to deal with FE and IM curse).

And no matter what build you play, always check ancients' mod before the fight!

7. What else should I know about FE?

There are other arguments and fact:

a. Argument - Many believe if the boss is also LE on top of FE, the lightning bolts are lethal (Include Scarab beetle bosses)! There might be added damages carried by the lightning bolts (Beetle minions included). Why the combination is deadly though is the bolts always hit (only Assassin Claw Block and Amazon Avoid/Evade/Dodge can escape them). Basically FE/CE/LE may deal up to twice the monster's regular hit damage with each bolt and it's easy to get hit 3 times once caught in a stream of bolts caused by your merc Jabbing the Unique.

b. Fact - When close to a dying FE/CE monsters, you'll be taking a single Frost Nova and at least a FE death blasts. The Explosion can also land a critical hit, doubling all dmg done. The odds of receiving one doubled explosion may become somewhat larger when killing a FECE Unique (understandable, it is 2x explosion, so 2x chance). A high life FECE boss may take almost any legit build out with its nova blast!

c. Argument - The Poison Cloud left by Embalmed type monsters could be bugged when the Unique in the pack is FE. Getting poisoned by a cloud left by the Unique or one of the minions may apply some form of additional damage. Being mobbed by a pack of FE Embalmed types could mean none avoidable death, since each one you kill will hit you with additional damage once his cloud gets to you (which will happen every time when surrounded).


8. Let's not forget Pindle's Revenge!

Another part of the FE bug is related to Reanimated Horde type monsters. If a FE Unique of this type is killed, he'll trigger the regular messy death explosion. The bug kicks in when the game rolls for a 'ressurect' for the Unique. Normally, this roll is ignored since Uniques don't ressurect. Also, considering the FE has destroyed the corpse, there's nothing to ressurect to start with. The mechanism to prevent a Unique for being ressurect seems to be simply kill him the second the ressurection would normally occur. And the good news is of course that killing an FE monster causes a FE explosion. Since there's no corpse though, the game just neglects to display any graphics when this happens, to basicially there is a blast zone centered around the place of initial death where another FE blast can occur at some later point in time. Solution: Stay clear of the place where a FE Reanimated Horse Unique died.

Not only is there pindle's revenge, but there is the witch doctor endugu's FE problem. since when he dies there's a flayer under him, he also explodes twice, and also has the possiblity of dealing a good deal of damage before he kicks the bucket (for the second time).

9. Can you have a build that is capable to survive FE bugged damage?

You may survive normal bosses, but not FE ancients. Max resist/absorb/PDR and massive amount of life can survive the bugged damage.

PS: FE and players X

The more life, the more FE death damage will be carried out. It is NOT generally believed the damage takes player setting into account. However, I do not recommend to try it. Regardless what players setting, FE is 100% lethal. Once again, if you play HC or SC at very high level, you shall not bet on your build can survive the bug/blast.

Special thanks to every body who joined in the FE argument and provided very useful information.

Special thanks to HBeachBabe and everyone who did the proof-reading, and corrected my n00b english mistakes.
 

RTB

Diabloii.Net Member
You might want to add that the Explosion can also land a critical hit, doubling all dmg done. The odds of receiving one doubled explosion becomes somewhat larger when killing a FECE Unique.
 

Hiedran

Diabloii.Net Member
Pico Dynamite said:
I'm kinda new to the spf too, and I hear people talk about IIRC and I still don't know what it is, if anyone can help me what would be great! One interesting thing I didn't know was that increased mf doesn't increase much after /player3, but does is apply to 1.09d also?
I've always heard
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
 
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