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Whats the definition of bad manners?

Discussion in 'PvP' started by smeer, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. smeer

    smeer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Whats the definition of bad manners?

    I was wondering what the definition is of bad manners, in order to determine if something is considered BM or not.

    Also: why are some thing considered BM and others aren't?

    For me everything that is not (intentionaly) provided by the game should be considered BM.

    If that would be the definition of BM, bugged items, desynch etc would not be allowed. However HF, absorb, LT, Amp etc, things provided by the game should be allowed.

    I would understand such a definition. However things aren't that clear at all.
    HF is considered BM, but desynch is allowed...now where is the logic behinde this? Please shine the light on me....:rolleyes:
     
  2. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz Diabloii.Net Member

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    About abs.

    Why do you do duel?

    a) to have fun?
    b) to kill the other no matter what?

    if a, what the point of having the other person do no damage at all to you?
    if b, quit this game and join wow.
     
  3. smeer

    smeer Diabloii.Net Member

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    It's for fun.
    And again use what the game provides. Absorb is caped at 40%. So if someone uses a lot of absorb, use infinity or lower resist or both.
    Now is it fair to desynch so the other person can't see where you are and in fact there is no duel at all but a certain death....
    So the point is we consider things BM because we want to have fun, but on the other hand we consider things not BM that in fact do the same thing...

    In other words I am in search of a good definition



     
  4. pedu

    pedu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Assuming both players are gm to start with. And dueling for fun and not the beating at all costs.
    About abs. Over absorbing is just stupid. Theres just no point. But if a char is so weak that it cant even take a single abs item then maybe rebuild? But when people whine about even one abs piece is ridiculous. And think that when someone mentions abs, its automaticly so called over abs.
    Aside from that, the above definition sounds good to me.
     
  5. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint Diabloii.Net Member

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    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you :rolleyes:

    imo reverse the situation,
    if the tables were turned and you had swapped over gear/chars and you thought pff this is unfair/lame then its badmannered.

    slow is in the game but using slow+kb on a bowazon vs a wolf so that they can never even reach you is bad manners - would you feel that its a battle of skill if slowed and kb as a wolf?
     
  6. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Desyncing is gm because it actually requires skill to use it.

    About feeling unfair:

    When I duel wolfies I feel its unfair to use mb+traps+ww . But its accepted?
     
  7. smeer

    smeer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well yes as stated before I think the wolf needs to adapt with things mother nature diablo provides and swap on an enigma. Now is it fair that the wolf can tele right on top of the bowazon and kill her with just one hit?
    Or am I wrong and can't you tele when in wolf form? If so he could still use a doom to bring the bowazon down to a patetic speed.

    And even if that's the case (you can't tele while in wolf form) then it has always been the case that some chars always have a very difficult duel against certain classes (eg a smiter will have a verry difficult time against a hammerdin).



     
  8. pedu

    pedu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Cant tele in wolf form.
     
  9. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint Diabloii.Net Member

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    tt its just an example thats easy to see but you got fixated on it - get the bigger picture :(
     
  10. smeer

    smeer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes, I know ...I get the bigger picture and I try to use the rule

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

    when i duel, but I only wanted to start a discussion about BM. I also only used examples and the bigger picture of what I mean is:
    there is no clear definition of what is BM and what's not, leading to a lot of confusion.
    Also we consider lots of things BM and where does it stop. I mean do we end up dueling with bare hands?

    What I mean is that

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

    leaves much room for different opinions



     
  11. pedu

    pedu Diabloii.Net Member

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    It also depends on where you duel. Met a javazon once who thought it was ok for her to fc (illegally), but not ok for me to use tgods. :rolleyes: Go figure.
    In pubs its pointless to try to reason with some golden rule stuff. Most of the time they whine after one nk, when theyve done it for 10 minutes...
     
  12. Sechler

    Sechler Diabloii.Net Member

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    Some common rules I try to follow. Never nk, bo kill, jump, townguard, townhug, juv or use hacks/scripts. And if I do on accident, I always apologize. And when I see it repeatedly done, not even necessarily to me, I relentlessly mock, cut down and squelch the other player. As far as sorb, I wear one item without letting the other person know, unless they ask. I carry a fairly decent amount of bm gear in stash and have no problem breaking it out when I am bm’ed upon, but I always let the other player cast the first bm stone. I think this is the general consensus of most the pub duelers on this forum, but I guess I shouldn’t speak for everyone. How I feel tho.
     
  13. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint Diabloii.Net Member

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    ofc it leaves room for opinions as thats all this is : OPINION

    however, the reverse roles thing is relative and should cover almost everyones definition even if everyone thinks the absolute definition is different.
     
  14. SirBeetle

    SirBeetle Diabloii.Net Member

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    bm is something that would make me stop dueling a certain character ie:
    CS zon using hacks to perform cs from 1-2 screens away...
    a zon using slow missle b/c it is the cheapest move in the game by far and makes certain chars even unusable.
    Slow gear, shuts down every meele character in the game.
    Life tap, makes any meele char a god..
    Bone prison vs. any character w/out teleport.
    I guess doom r/w's are also bm, they do single handedly shut down meele chars.
    Decrepify can also be thrown in this catagory for obv reasons.

    dunno, those are just a few.
     
  15. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Beatable with and without absorb. Heck, a Doom is good enough.

    But it's got a duration to it. You can always play defensive until it wears off. Or just use Fade (if I remember correctly, Slow Missiles is a "curse" type of skill).

    Incorrect. Ever tried to duel versus a frozen and a not frozen WW barb with a melee character? Frozen, also slow, is good for WW in some duels (the ones where the target stays still).

    Incorrect, once again. Life Tap only triggers on a few character (Smiter, Fury wolf, Kicker) and all of them are easily beatable. If with nothing else, Fade and defensive play.

    Aka Shapers. Well, for a werewolf, a prison is simply a source of leech. Ask Stoutewolf about what happened when he dueled Vadim (BoneMeArse) and Vadim used Bone Prisons. I was there to witness that.

    Again, you are completedly ignoring some things. Dooms do pretty much nothing to a 4 frames Fury (I know from experience), WW is only better with slow versus stationary targets and a PB Grief will make Dooms useless when used on a smiter.

    Too bad that with Fade it only lasts for 3.486 seconds. And this is with a lvl 22 Decrepify (1 pt, +2 curses from Trangs, +19 all from gear)

    I've always kept saying, that "manners" are something that humans have. And digital items sure as hell are not human. So, what's the problem? You should rather say "things that make me and others lose 5-0" or something like that.



     
  16. zooply

    zooply Diabloii.Net Member

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    gotta agree that there's not really a clear-cut(sp?) definition of bm. i don't know if 'do unto others' completely applies, cause like smeer said, opinions differ (esp. with bnet kids that stack tons o' cold absorb or w/e and say 'EZ GG NUB! R3MAKE!!1!'). but the basic concept of 'do unto others' still applies.

    i think, outside of gear advantage, it's one player taking an overly unfair advantage over the other, rendering it impossible for the other player to win. some cases don't really count since it's just a natural advantage aka one character class sucks at dueling another class (is it smiters or hammerdins that windies really give trouble to?) in those cases you could maybe go a little bm since you're probably screwed anyways lol
     
  17. mainaman

    mainaman Diabloii.Net Member

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    CeOlba how u use doom on a sorc , bowazon ,traper to counter fc-ing cs javazon?

    general rule for pub games is as soon as you enter be ready to get bmed, fc nk ,jump etc, be ready to bm back.
    practice your char get good with it then you should be able to take on any averege pub game with basically gm gear.
    if you want pure gm do priv dueling, you will ineveitably meet good duelers in pub games ask fro priv gm duels i doubt they will decline if you are atleast decent.
     
  18. SirBeetle

    SirBeetle Diabloii.Net Member

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    Lol dude, so in your terms, a source of getting around all those is spending 2 minutes just prebuffing w/fort/lw and being a ww barb or a fury druid (plz stop the druids are the s*** talk cause they're not). So on every meele char I have, I should invest that much into just prebuffing, plz. And no, doom does not stop fc cs.. I was trapping a fc'er to death the other day mb the crap out of her, and still died magically from screens away.

    My post was to say which moves were BM (BAD MANNNNNNNER'DDD), not that they're impossible to get around. Trust me, I know how to get around most of them, but they are still pretty much all considered bm. Hell, even a little elemental dmg and greif's are considered bm to few. And I still find it hard to beleive that a fury druid can kill a GOOD pb necro's who's using decrep and bone prison while spamming you to death with spears...

    And finally, I do realise that a ww barb is the answer to every single thing in this game, but they are also the jankiest build in the game (next to hammerdins).



     
  19. Ce Olba

    Ce Olba Banned

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    Where did I say that Fury/Rabies druids are ****ty? Why would I say so after getting beaten by Stoutewolf? Logic=0?

    And Doom does not necessarily totally STOP FC, but it makes it next to useless.

    As for the barbarian issue, where did I say so? As for the prebuff, who cares?

    So now you are contradicting yourself? You just said they are not good, and now you say they get beaten.

    And no, Grief is not considered BM for the Venom, but for the fact that people with no logic think that it's bugged somehow or then they need to even it up for their ebotd or rare weapon.

    And that's your personal opinion.

    If you can use a Spirit on a sorc, you can use a Doom too. If you can use Stormshield on a Bowazon, you can use a Doom too. As for the trapper, if you go shield+weapon, then you will have enough str for a Doom.

    And if you are talking about, for example, using it constantly, well of course you can do that with a little sacrifice.



     
  20. SirBeetle

    SirBeetle Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just to let you know, I always think that fury druids suck pvp, if I ever said they were good, I'll cap myself off right now... And a necro bming up the A can destroy pretty much anything in the game (bvc though trumps it w/ease). If a fury druid beat a bming bone necro, then the necro should remake immediately. 1 time is a fluke, 2 times you suck.

    And yes, pub dueling is usually 80% bm, but it's still hella fun to do with a trapper.
     

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