What's an ideal AR for Hell?

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
What's an ideal AR for Hell?

I've been contemplating a lot of goofy nonmelee melee builds lately. Clearly, craploads of CB, OW, and DS are in order. I'm just wondering how much AR is really enough in Hell, because Angelics takes up that valuable Highlord's slot which is one of the best sources of DS.

Do you guys think it would be possible to come up with an anycharacter no-skill build without HR runewords that could actually hack it in Hell? Not kill quickly mind you but actually be able work its way through.
 

FrozenSolid

Diabloii.Net Member
I think it would be very hard, next to impossible perhaps. The char would have too little life to survive and once they run into oblivion knights its bye bye baby. But I havent thought of it that much, maybe someone got other opinions.
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
Well, you could always drop down to fists and rely on elemental items, CB, and OW to do the killing. What about the AR though?
 

ganjaman

Diabloii.Net Member
I would say you need at least 6k on hell, but should aim for more like 10k+. Thats PvM. I dont have much dueling experience.....
 

FodderCannoned

Diabloii.Net Member
use hrus boots/belt gives a good AR boost, or having a demon limb on switch will help with AR also. And get a Blessed aim merc will help also.
 

Ax2Grind

Diabloii.Net Member
Which class?

Pherdnut said:
I've been contemplating a lot of goofy nonmelee melee builds lately. Clearly, craploads of CB, OW, and DS are in order. I'm just wondering how much AR is really enough in Hell, because Angelics takes up that valuable Highlord's slot which is one of the best sources of DS.

Do you guys think it would be possible to come up with an anycharacter no-skill build without HR runewords that could actually hack it in Hell? Not kill quickly mind you but actually be able work its way through.
With the exception of Deadly Strike (someone told me all characters have a chance of Critical Strike, but since they can't be mixed the maximum you'll get is +100% enhanced damage) none of these mods can be used to leech. Depending on the class I'd suppose a lot of auras, but since a Paladin can only have one active then that aura (Concentration or Fanaticism most likely, assuming a Might merc), Blessed Aim for it's passive bonus, and Holy Shield with Defiance synergy would be the only way to survive without other Combat Skills. That sounds remarkably like a Werebear Paladin, since in morphed form you can't use any other Paladin abilities.

I suppose if you did use one then your build might be the prestage for a Werebear Paladin, only switching to that gear when you actually get it. Wouldn't be a waste of time, but you'd still need hefty gear to get you to that point and concentrate on finding the runes necessary, eventually. With the BA passivity, you'd have a ton of attack rating, so no need to worry about that.

Now about other classes... let me know.
 

batuchka

Diabloii.Net Member
Well with lowish AR a angelics, hsarus and fool's mod in weapon help. Other options could be eth runes for - target def. Also i had always wonderd if anyone had crafted a nice blood helm for PvM:

Magic Helm/Casque/Armet
Ral Rune
Perfect Ruby
Any Jewel

5-10% Deadly Strike
(1-3)% Life Stolen Per Hit
+(10-20) To Life

Now if this recipe has a 'Visionary' prefix spawn and 2 sockets an interesting helm would be the result hehe.
 

FrozenSolid

Diabloii.Net Member
Pherdnut said:
Well, you could always drop down to fists and rely on elemental items, CB, and OW to do the killing. What about the AR though?
That could work but with low phys dmg the life leech would be too low I think. Although you could stock up on lots of super healings, I guess that would be a big part of the whole progress.
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Doesn't Crushing Blow leech? I think it does, but now that I think again, I don't really know.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
Another double post. Ignoe this, please...

For some reason I often hit the back button of my browser when I want to edit my posting instead of hitting the edit button of the posting :rolleyes:
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
When my zealot uses smite to kill Baal (who has a very low leech efficiency), most damage comes from CB and it doesn't deal enough regular damage to leech bacvk those 2 mana per hit, so sooner or later he runs out of mana, but when he attacks him with zeal, he inflicts far more non-CB damage and mana gets leeched back. But you deal more damage per skill use by smite than by zeal and both skills cost 2 mana per activation. The only conclusion can be that CB doesn't leech (or that you can't leech from smite, but I doubt that because lifetap works in combination with smite).
 

Chiller_babe

Diabloii.Net Member
krischan said:
When my zealot uses smite to kill Baal (who has a very low leech efficiency), most damage comes from CB and it doesn't deal enough regular damage to leech bacvk those 2 mana per hit, so sooner or later he runs out of mana, but when he attacks him with zeal, he inflicts far more non-CB damage and mana gets leeched back. But you deal more damage per skill use by smite than by zeal and both skills cost 2 mana per activation. The only conclusion can be that CB doesn't leech (or that you can't leech from smite, but I doubt that because lifetap works in combination with smite).
Smite doesn't allow any form of leech
 

Chimaira

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm pretty sure that Crushing Blow doesn't leech...It's sort of a special effect, that really has nothing to do with your weapon damage.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
Chiller_babe said:
Smite doesn't allow any form of leech
Oh, I didn't know that. So my brilliant logic was based on wrong assumptions :rolleyes:

Chimaira said:
I'm pretty sure that Crushing Blow doesn't leech...It's sort of a special effect, that really has nothing to do with your weapon damage.
Yes, that makes sense, as it works to the same extent versus monsters which are 100-(something small) % immune to physical damage, like decrepped or amped ghosts... hoping that I'm not wrong again.
 

Harleyquin

Diabloii.Net Member
To answer the original question, my level 84 necro has nearly 8K attack rating and has at least 70% chance to hit with poison dagger against river of flame monsters. I hope this helps as a comparison
 

LprMan

Diabloii.Net Member
Both AR and level of the attacker and defender are applied into "chance to hit"-formula, its not all about AR and enemy's defense. I usually aim to 8k, and I usually play my characters until they are lvl ~90
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
It's a hard set of choices. I've been thinking of using Passion which could really use the ED boost from might, but so many of the best AR items come from partial sets that usually take up at least one of your good CB/OW choices. Maybe I should just content myself with double Angelics and stick with Open Wounds and elemental damage or something.
 

Amiral

Diabloii.Net Member
Pherdnut said:
Do you guys think it would be possible to come up with an anycharacter no-skill build without HR runewords that could actually hack it in Hell? Not kill quickly mind you but actually be able work its way through.
ok, so you want to know if a char can kill hell without using highend runewords or skills that belong to other classes?
or do you want to know if a char is able to beat hell without using any skills?

anyway, you absoolutely don't need high end runewords to complete hell.
how do you think all the SPers do it otherwise?

and well, as a baba (aka massive life from vitality) i'm sure you could beat hell without using any skills.

btw, OK's you just run past as a melee...

EDIT: My zealot, at lvl 87, has an 77% chance to hit the orclooking guys where shenk is, with 4.6k AR, and that's enough for me. though I do use Heaven's light, which gives -33% enemy defence ;)
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
I meant with no skills or crazy RWs, but that's just because I can't afford most of them at this time.
 
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