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What to do with Jah

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by anthrop, Sep 21, 2010.

  1. anthrop

    anthrop IncGamers Member

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    What to do with Jah

    I recently traded for a Jah. I have wanted Enigma for sooo long. Now that I'm so much closer, I suddenly realize that Enigma isn't the end-all be-all armor that I thought it was a couple of years ago. I have a Fortitude armor for my physical damage people, and various nice armors for casters. Ormus' Robes, Vipermagi, Tal Rasha's, and a 1.07 Arkaine's Valor.

    So, Enigma would only make a big difference for the following builds:

    Hammerdin,
    Fishymancer,
    Windy Druid

    And.. that's it?

    Amazons cast too slow. I hear Assassin's traps disappear during teleport.

    Hammerdin and Windy Druid are kind of boring, so that leaves me with getting Enigma for a Fishymancer. And I kind of prefer my poisonmancer. He might prefer Bramble.

    So I started looking at the other uses for Jah.

    There's Fury
    Jah + Gul + Eth
    +209% Enhanced Damage
    40% Increased Attack Speed
    Prevent Monster Heal
    66% Chance Of Open Wounds
    33% Deadly Strike
    Ignore Target's Defense
    -25% Target Defense
    20% Bonus To Attack Rating
    6% Life Stolen Per Hit
    +5 To Frenzy (Barbarian Only)

    No crushing blow means Grief is almost always better. It could be used on my whirlwind assassin, but she gets depressed, comparing herself to my barbarian, and wishing her merc had infinity to help her lightning traps.

    Enigma
    Jah + Ith + Ber
    +2 To All Skills
    +45% Faster Run/Walk
    +1 To Teleport
    +750-775 Defense (varies)
    + (0.75 Per Character Level) +0-74 To Strength (Based On Character Level)
    Increase Maximum Life 5%
    Damage Reduced By 8%
    +14 Life After Each Kill
    15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
    + (1 Per Character Level) +1-99% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level)

    Very nice - I'm surprised to find I don't really have much use for it.

    Famine
    4 Socket Axes/Hammers
    Fal + Ohm + Ort + Jah
    +30% Increased Attack Speed
    +320-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignore Target's Defense
    Adds 180-200 Magic Damage
    Adds 50-200 Fire Damage
    Adds 51-250 Lightning Damage
    Adds 50-200 Cold Damage
    12% Life Stolen Per Hit
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +10 To Strength

    Great physical damage, and tons of non-physical damage. Grief is considered better for most builds because sword swingers tend to multiply physical damage a lot more than other. This might be a spectacular weapon on a paladin for vengeance. Or on a melee sorc. When I've looked for advice on this weapon, it seems to be looked down on. I don't understand why.

    Brand
    4 Socket Missile Weapons
    Jah + Lo + Mal + Gul
    35% Chance To Cast Level 14 Amplify Damage When Struck
    100% Chance To Cast Level 18 Bone Spear On Striking
    +260-340% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignore Target's Defense
    20% Bonus to Attack Rating
    +280-330% Damage To Demons (varies)
    20% Deadly Strike
    Prevent Monster Heal
    Knockback
    Fires Explosive Arrows or Bolts (15)

    This looks like a great weapon. But I've read a lot of high end bow comparison arguments, and this one tends to get left out. I'm guessing it's because Faith and Windforce are better.

    Destruction
    5 Socket Polearms/Swords
    Vex + Lo + Ber + Jah + Ko
    23% Chance To Cast Level 12 Volcano On Striking
    5% Chance To Cast Level 23 Molten Boulder On Striking
    100% Chance To Cast level 45 Meteor When You Die
    15% Chance To Cast Level 22 Nova On Attack
    +350% Enhanced Damage
    Ignore Target's Defense
    Adds 100-180 Magic Damage
    7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
    20% Chance Of Crushing Blow
    20% Deadly Strike
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +10 To Dexterity

    Maybe some kicksin build would use this? Wouldn't rift be better? I'll save up until I can get BoTD instead. My merc will eventually always prefer Infinity, Pride, Reaper's Toll or Faith

    Dream
    3 Socket Helms/Shields
    Io + Jah + Pul
    10% Chance To Cast Level 15 Confuse When Struck
    Level 15 Holy Shock Aura When Equipped
    +20-30% Faster Hit Recovery (varies)
    +30% Enhanced Defense
    +150-220 Defense (varies)
    +10 To Vitality
    Increase Maximum Life 5% (Helms Only)
    +50 To Life (Shields Only)
    +0.625-61.875 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
    All Resistances +5-20 (varies)
    12-25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (varies)

    This is what I'm leaning towards making. You kind of need the helm and shield both to make it worth it. I sadly can't think of a build that would prefer it, by itself, over some other helm. Maybe I should just hold on until I have a second Jah.

    Faith
    4 Socket Missile Weapons
    Ohm + Jah + Lem + Eld
    Level 12-15 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped (varies)
    +1-2 To All Skills (varies)
    +330% Enhanced Damage
    Ignore Target's Defense
    300% Bonus To Attack Rating
    +75% Damage To Undead
    +50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
    +120 Fire Damage
    All Resistances +15
    10% Reanimate As: Returned
    75% Extra Gold From Monsters

    Here's another option. My fishymancer would prefer an Infinity-wielding merc for the crushing blow and bonus to corpse explode damage. I could make Pride, but I'm using some high cb polearm now to kill Baal faster. He's a real problem to kill quickly for fishymancers, despite his minions dying quickly. So that leaves this for my strafer's merc. Not as much bonus damage as Pride, but it lets me move faster. I think I'd prefer to make Pride over this one. In either case, only my strafer's merc would ever wield it. Windforce outdamages it.

    Ice
    4 Socket Missile Weapons
    Amn + Shael + Jah + Lo
    100% Chance To Cast Level 40 Blizzard When You Level-up
    25% Chance To Cast Level 22 Frost Nova On Striking
    Level 18 Holy Freeze Aura When Equipped
    +20% Increased Attack Speed
    +140-210% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignore Target's Defense
    +25-30% To Cold Skill Damage (varies)
    -20% To Enemy Cold Resistance
    7% Life Stolen Per Hit
    20% Deadly Strike
    3.125-309.375 Extra Gold From Monsters (Based on Character Level)

    I've tried frost maidens. Frost arrow makes for a great support skill. Spamming it takes up tons of magic, and it's annoying to click on everything individually. It's too bad, because this has incredible mods on it for a frost maiden.

    Last Wish
    6 Socket Swords/Hammers/Axes
    Jah + Mal + Jah + Sur + Jah + Ber
    6% Chance To Cast Level 11 Fade When Struck
    10% Chance To Cast Level 18 Life Tap On Striking
    20% Chance To Cast Level 20 Charged Bolt On Attack
    Level 17 Might Aura When Equipped
    +330-375% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignore Target's Defense
    60-70% Chance of Crushing Blow (varies)
    Prevent Monster Heal
    Hit Blinds Target
    +(0.5 per character level) 0.5-49.5% Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based on Character Level)

    Spectacular crushing blow. Maybe on switch with BotD for killing bosses? But no, I'd want a polearm BotD. Might aura means you can put Faith on your mercenary instead of running with a Pride-Might merc. I'm not a big fan of life tap, until we get ubers in single player. Insanely expensive.

    Phoenix
    4 Socket Weapons/Shields
    Vex + Vex + Lo + Jah
    Weapons
    100% Chance To Cast level 40 Blaze When You Level-up
    40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking
    Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
    +350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    Ignores Target's Defense
    14% Mana Stolen Per Hit
    -28% To Enemy Fire Resistance
    20% Deadly Strike
    +350-400 Defense Vs. Missile (varies)
    +15-21 Fire Absorb (varies)

    Shields
    100% Chance To Cast level 40 Blaze When You Level-up
    40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking
    Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
    +350-400 Defense Vs. Missile (varies)
    +350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    -28% To Enemy Fire Resistance
    +50 To Life
    +5% To Maximum Lightning Resist
    +10% To Maximum Fire Resist
    +15-21 Fire Absorb (varies)

    I understand this is usually on switch. Dual Grief whirlwind is better than Grief/Phoenix, right? Other than when whirlwinding, I've heard the casting delay is unbearable.

    Well I wrote this mostly for myself as I was trying to sort out what to do. I think I've decided to just hold onto the Jah for who knows how long and hope for a second one so I can dual dream.

    Feedback and experiences appreciated.
     
  2. Grisu

    Grisu IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    First thought on Famine: Vengeance's damage is calculated based on base damage, not elemental damage, so it's of limited use. (well, 330-370% ED isn't too shabby either, but you can have this much cheaper on a Death weapon.)
    A sorceress could make good use of the elemental damage, but you can get more elemental damage on an Immortal Queen (granted, Famine could be one-handed...).

    It would be better on a Conviction Zealot (as a one-handed weapon) than on an Avenger IMHO. Still, I think partial IK set beats Famine to it.
     
  3. anthrop

    anthrop IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Good to know. I haven't done many paladin builds. Good point on IKs as well. It gives gobs of elemental damage.


     
  4. HappeningKT

    HappeningKT Banned

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    A single dream is pointless. It is better to wait for another Jah. If u want to spend it now, faith,brand and ice are nice options.

    btw, I've never heard of any trapper complaining of enigma, it is still the best for trappers.
     
  5. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I think 'Enigma' would be really useful for
    - Barb running Travincal
    - Poisonmancer in the Pits
    - Cow running zon

    I have tried running Pits with 48% Bramble Poisonmancer and I'm certain that I'd prefer 'Enigma'.

    --Greebo
     
  6. frozzzen

    frozzzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Enigma is the way to go. Once you have it there will be no turning back.
    I have Fortitude and I don't use it on any character. Enigma for non sorceress character and Vipermagi for sorceress.

    I hear Assassin's traps disappear during teleport.
    You hear wrong. How would PvP traper be viable with that feature? :wink:
    Trapper benefits from enigma quite a lot too.
    Fury claw is good idea (from my assassin fanboy point of view) but without Enigma I wouldn't make WW sinn, for PvP at least.
    Faith is also decent option but I'd go with Enigma anyway. It changes your playstyle dramatically.

    Code:
    [highlight]Do yourself a favor and go for Enigma[/highlight]
    
    Can't stress this enough. :whistling:
     
  7. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    If you teleport the traps fizzle out after about 1 screen width distance. It seems to be a bit more if you walk/run but it may be my imagination. Anyway it's not an issue. Just go and make Enigma. Then a PvP character.
     
  8. EatSleepDiablo

    EatSleepDiablo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Enigma hands down. Great mods all around. I even use it on my WSK amazon, even though the only time I tele is to Baal's platform.

    Make it in a BP and you will not be disappointed.
     
  9. Twoflower

    Twoflower Banned

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Enigma is great for so many builds.

    Summoners gamestyle changes completely once you can mass up your entire army in one spot with one mouse cklick. This is such a huge difference, i pretty much gave up on my summoner till i have a enigma.

    Faster travincal farming for ww barbs.

    Hammerdins ( no need to explain this one )

    Melee PvP Barbarians vs casters / singers

    Windies

    Trapsins
     
  10. bcoe

    bcoe IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I agree with the pro-enigma sentiments. Its not just about teleport, either. I have used it on a number of amazons who never teleport. It also has great skills, MF, strength, and (my favorite) FRW. Its a game-changer, and is much more widely useful than any of your other options. I also have Faith, 2x Dreams, Phoenix, and Ice. I've enjoyed them all, but Enigma gets more use than the rest put together.
     
  11. RobbyD

    RobbyD IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I heard somewhere that 1.13 fixed the Holy Shock stacking from dual Dreams - I'd look into that before investing in that setup.
     
  12. scrcrw

    scrcrw IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Dual Dream still works fine. I think they fixed (or rather tried to) another bug that allowed you to have multiple Holy Shock auras from Dream at the same time. That's what is commonly referred to as Stacking (afaik).

    +1 vote for Enigma. By far my most used piece of gear.
     
  13. anthrop

    anthrop IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I'm using fortitude on my travincal runner. Wouldn't the frw make your whirlwind pass over stuff too fast? Plus, it's a pretty short walk, and fortitude helps killing speed a lot.

    A Cow running zon would make great use of it now that I think about it. I hadn't really thought much about the 45% frw, but that along with great magic find and +2 to skill would boost it above skullders or 1.07 Arkaine's.

    The pits are so cramped, Enigma would be wonderful to have. That's a good point. I was thinking of Bramble more for other areas.

    I'm really not into PvP. Teleport may be crucial for most PvP builds, but that wouldn't affect me.

    Nice to know about the traps fizzling from distance, rather than teleporting itself.

    I'll read up more on what base people put it in. I'd heard of using a breastplate.

    Twoflower, in regards to teleport changing summoners completely - I agree. I have a +necro skills/teleport amulet. It makes a huge difference in how fast I can kill Baal. I do find it annoying that I have to reset my hotkey every time. I'm guessing I'll have the same problem with enigma.

    Seems everyone loves Enigma. Advice well taken. It's too bad it uses a Ber, as I quite would like Infinity as well.
     
  14. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I do the same, since I don't have 'Enigma' yet. I just read good things from people who tried both.

    I think one thing you can do is to not get Increased Speed. TP back to Act 4, so not much running in town. I think the Whirl speed is more or less the same for Barb+IncSpeed+'Forti' and Barb+NoIncSpeed+'Enigma'.

    I'm not sure what your full equipment is, but I have a 'Grief'/'Beast' barb with Might moron and Lying of Hands. The loss of 'Fortitude' in such set-up is much less noticeable.

    Adding up all the %ED from various sources I got 1500%. Going down to 1200%, while noticeable, is not too horrible, and the 'travel time' decreases.

    It's great otherwise. It's just not well suited for running the Pits.

    Enjoy your armor!
    --Greebo


     
  15. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    I hate to beat a dead horse here, but 'Enigma' is definitely the best use of a Jah and Ber rune. On a cost/usefulness basis, it's up there. It's an item that easily changes the pace of the game. Outside of Sorceresses and maybe Amazons, all other builds do benefit from Enigma, PvM and PvP wise.

    So, Enigma would only make a big difference for the following builds:

    Hammerdin,
    Fishymancer,
    Windy Druid

    And.. that's it?


    Like others have mentionned, other builds benefit as well, and more build options will open up to you once you use it. Also note that some of the game's top builds were just listed by you, and they receive a remarkable boost from 'Enigma'. But on that basis of usefulness to x number of classes, many of the alternate choices you've listed are only good for one or two novelty builds, whereas 'Enigma' covers a range of classes and builds.

    Since you were initially leaning towards 'Dream', as someone who has a pair of them, let me offer you my thoughts. While dual 'Dream' seems fantastic, you can only make the most of it on a Meleesorc (novelty build) and a Tesladin or Tesladin Hybrid/Variation (less popular build), compared to 'Enigma', which opens up PvP and PvM aspects of the game for you. 'Dream' lets you make an extremely strong melee lightning Sorceress/Paladin, but has very little relevance on any other class or build. This is not the case with 'Enigma'. Even builds that seemingly don't need to teleport (Barbarian, Amazon, etc.) will make use of Teleport every so often to bypass certain parts of the game, get around, save yourself, etc.

    And lastly, regarding using 'Enigma' over 'Fortitude' on physical damage based characters. Assuming you still pump base strength even though you're wearing 'Enigma', the STR/Lvl and +2 Skills usually gives around 70% to 100% enhanched damage, which isn't a bad drop from 'Fortitude's' 300%. Many of the Jah-based runewords are novelty runewords and/or do not offer benefits to a range of classes the same way 'Enigma' does.

    TL;DR - do yourself a favour and go for 'Enigma' before dual 'Dreams'.
     
  16. Fabian

    Fabian IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Another very very clear vote for Enigma.

    Also, regarding Enigma vs Fortitude on a Travincal Barb, I'm totally convinced that Enigma leads to significantly better run times, with comparable equipment otherwise. I've killed the Council for over 50 hours (probably very conservative) with each of them.
     
  17. jdkerr

    jdkerr IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    Besides, omg is sick of his dual 'Dreams' already and has promised to give them to me sometime this weekend.
     
  18. Greebo

    Greebo IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    "Hers". If uncertain, why not use the word "theirs"?

    SPF is full of EUs.

    --Greebo


     
  19. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    'Enigma' can work on sorceresses and amazons just fine. It's been a nice replacement for Skullder's on my [now retired] AT Blizzard sorceress, where it provides more damage/life/LPK at the cost of some MF that was already experiencing significantly diminishing returns. As for amazons, don't count it out for bowazons either. The extra mobility and MF are both useful, and the cost (230% ED) is not as great as you might believe, considering how much %ED you would normally have to begin with Dexterity, Might, Laying of Hands, and so on.

    EDIT: I do prefer it on javazons as well, and not just cow running ones either.

    While true, that has little to do with SlowMG. :p


     
  20. Pyrohemia

    Pyrohemia IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do with Jah

    There is a reason Enigma is the king. The ability to move from one place to another permeates every part of Diablo 2 and the maneuverability enhancement from Enigma is unprecedented. What makes Enigma so game changing is that even without teleport it is still a powerful armor. Enigma gets by far the most use of any armor I have. Once you have tried it you will realize that barbarians, more than any other non-teleporting class, were built to teleport. I haven't built a single barbarian that hasn't used Enigma since I got it. Even my wolf-barb uses enigma and he can't use teleport.



    This thread would benefit from 1000% more poll-bug, don't you agree?
     

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