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What to do to speed up LK runs?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Broncobiv2, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    What to do to speed up LK runs?

    First of all, here is my handy, color-coded LK map.

    I'm running LK with a sorc with 110 FCR (8 frames) and 155% FRW...30% from circlet, 30% from ammy, 20% from boots, and 25*3% FRW SC's (I miss the old days of 5% FRW SC's, btw).

    The 2 bonfires are located very nicely. Immediately south of the WP, then again just a few teleports south of the first one. My route on each run goes WP, corpse, superchest, weapon rack, bonfire corpse, armor rack, 2 superchests, 3 or 4 poppables on the way to next bonfire, superchest, weapon rack, bonfire corpse, armor rack, 2 superchests, final poppable log.

    I've been running on /players8 so Ber/Sur/Vex/Ist are possible drops. But as you can see from my map, I also like to pop things along the way (corpses, logs, and stashes) so maybe a Lo, Ohm, or Gul will drop. I'm not in need of one specific rune, so I like to keep my options open.

    I also like to sift through the superchest drops (even the big ones) so I won't miss any gems, jewels, or charms. That's why my belt is 3/4 empty, to collect potions so I can drain them quickly instead of having to go into my inventory (I only have about 2x4 open in there).

    The only problem is, after computer load times and a stop at my stash, my run time is a minute per run at best. Depending on cubing flawless gems into perfects, maybe 1:10.

    Where do I cut back my time? Should I stop popping the 2 weapon racks and 2 armor racks? They don't seem too special...one drops pally shields (maybe for 4os for Spirit or a unique gilded HoZ). One drops assassin weapons, but I don't even check them. Should I pop less corpses and logs? They just seem so good for loot, it's impossible for me to ignore them. If I teleport by one, I have to pop it. Do I stop sifting through superchest drops and only look for the red flash of a rune (using RRM)? The only problem with that is I'll miss some charms, jewels, and gems, and even possibly some runes if they don't flash.

    Or am I just too anal to decrease my run times because I love popping and picking everything up? :embarassed:
     
  2. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    1. Are you running in "windowed/no-sound" mode? That'll take ~3 seconds off your run time if you're not.

    2. I'd drop some of your FRW SC's. I keep a 6x4 inventory space empty on my LK runner, and although I only pop ~2 extra non-superchests (instead of the ~10 you have), I only have to visit my stash every ~20 runs.

    3. Do you have a weapon switch for running through town? If you're playing RWM, then Harmony bows are awesome. If you're not using RWM, you can still squeeze 25 FR/W from a Zephyr bow (Ort + Eth, so it's not exactly expensive). suitable low-requirement 2 & 3 socket bows can be purchased in Act1 & 2 in normal (shop with a different character though and transfer via ATMA, or you'll loose your map :tongue:).

    4. If you aren't picking up the weapons from the racks, I don't see any reason to keep running it.

    5. Organize your stash in town to facilitate quick-cubing. I always keep my cube in the dead-center of the bottom row - this position means that when I right-click to open the cube, my mouse is automatically positioned to left-click on the 'transmute' button. Secondly, I keep all of my uncubed gems sorted by colour in rows of 2, right next to the cube. Combined, it's a minimal amount of mouse-movement/drag & drop for me to manage gem cubing (screenshot). Anything that won't be cubed is kept out of the way (hence the perfect gem in the top-right).

    6. Speaking of gems, I don't know if you're collecting non-flawless gems or low-level runes, but from my experience they're a COMPLETELY inefficient thing to collect and cube (i.e. only collect them if you plan to use them without cubing).

    7. I suspect someone might come in and recommend "teleport to Act4 and that way you won't have to run through town when you restart". I've tried this, and I've timed it - even after extensive practice to get my "muscle memory" trained, switching acts was just as slow (or slower) than staying in Act3 with a high FR/W setup (changing acts can feel faster because it's more 'frantic' moving the mouse back & forth as opposed to running in one direction through town for ~4 seconds). With your high FR/W and current map, I don't see act-changing being any faster whatsoever.

    8. Use the "teleport to the right" technique... [edited details]:
    If you have teleport, teleport about 1/4 to 1/3 of the screen to the right. This will give the 'display algorithm' the opportunity to display more stuff. I even took a couple of screenshots to help illustrate it:

    For example, in this screenshot you can see that I've popped a couple of chests, and all of the items from the top-left chest are still dominating the display - it's hard to tell what popped from the bottom-right chest (near where I'm standing)... that means it's time to use my teleport... The result of teleporting to the right shows most/all of what's popped from the bottom-right chest. If I see something I want, I teleport back and pick up the items that are 'in the way'.

    Is teleporting to the right 100% failsafe? No, definitely not. However, a very significant percentage of the time that extra space will be just enough to tell you what you want to know.


    9. With all of that said, if you want to pop every rack and kick every log, what do you expect? Hell, you might as well kill a few monsters along the way too... my point is: yes you get good items sometimes from non-chests - but is that "sometimes" often enough for the extra time it costs you?

    Only you can answer that one.



    Edit: Just to make this post have (hopefully) complete advice, a couple other points:

    10. RRM is a significant help... when I pop the chest I always hold down the Alt key so I can see what drops - even when the rune ends up on the 'outside' of my available visible area, there's almost-always a flash of red while the 'display algorithm' sorts through and organizes the text that's displayed on the screen.

    11. Another helper that's even more obvious is to simply memorize some of the patterns for high runes. For example, I had a drop of 3 of the 4 magic items that accompany a Ber drop. When I saw those 3 items (Vambraces, Gothic Plate, and Full Helm - but the Arbalest was missing) I spent an extra 2-3 seconds sorting through drops and teleporting around just to make sure I wasn't missing the obvious.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2008
  3. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Excellent post, sirpoops. Thanks very much for the advice! As for some of your suggestions...

    I use RWM/RRM. I don't run in windowed/no sound mode. I could definitely try windowed mode, but no sound seems "dangerous". It's really handy to be able to hear a charm, gem, or jewel drop. If I heard it drop and know it's there somewhere among the junk, I'm sure not to skip past it (I can just imagine the one jewel I don't pick up being a 40/15).

    I have a Harmony, but it's in a Matriarchal Bow on my zon. I guess Ko isn't a very expensive rune to spend to make another one in a normal bow though. Arreat Summit says that lvl 10 Vigor is equal to 36% FRW. A bit better than the 25% from Zephyr as the alternative you suggested.

    The stash organization is a great idea. I have always had my cube in the bottom-right of the stash, with all of the gems stacked above it in the first 2 or 3 rows from the right. But putting everything at the bottom will definitely help having to move the mouse less.

    Gems...brings me to my next point. I just recently stopped picking up normal gems on LK runs only (I still pick up normal and flawless during other MF runs). I figured that with the quantity of gems dropping in LK, it's not worth the 27 regular gems you need to get one charm re-roll, when you only need 9 flawless to accomplish the same thing. I also stopped picking up runes under Thul a while ago, no matter what the situation. It's just not worth it, and I have enough crafting supplies for now.

    I'm still undecided about popping the weapon and armor racks. I like the idea of finding a perfect Pally Spirit shield. As for the other racks, what if a nice rare or even unique drops? Like you said, is it worth the extra time for such a small probability? I'll have to figure that out I guess.

    As for memorizing the high rune drop patterns, that's not too big of a deal to me. Because I always spend a couple seconds checking for flawless, charms, and jewels, I don't think a rune is gonna slip by. It's a disease, I tell you! Must not let anything get past me (hence the minute+ run times)!

    Again, great advice!
     
  4. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Just an FYI, skill-based FRW is "better" than item-based FRW. I'd estimate the level10 Vigor aura is more like 45 FRW from charms/gear.

    (I don't understand the details of "why" they're different, but I know this is true from experience and testing. I'm sure the details could be learned if I were ambitious enough to search).


    <--- 5k posts; and I was hoping to commemorate this post with something inane (and possibly inappropriate) - just because :tongue:.



     
  5. Atil

    Atil IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    I think people get a bit too concerned about run times. If you are in a time limit tournament then yes times are important. If you are running with no time limit then it doesn't really matter.

    If you enjoy searching through all the drops and popping things other than the superchests, then do that and don't worry if you take a bit longer.
     
  6. Frosty_The_Snowman

    Frosty_The_Snowman IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    After more than 10k LK runs, saving a few seconds each time will save many hours in the end :wink:...



     
  7. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    That someone would be me.

    If the load time required to change from act 4 to act 3 (running one step, use TK to grab the WP, load) exceeds that of running through the entire act 3 town, then it's time for a RAM upgrade.

    The load time occurs only once, since act 4 town has already loaded when the game loaded.

    Besides, this way there's no need for FRW at all, so you can concentrate on getting to 200%FCR (I use suicide branch, 33% spirit monarch, 18%fcr amu, 20%fcr circlet, 9fcr belt, vipermagi, magefist, fcr rings, all cheap stuff, even in sp) for faster teleporting between huts, and back to the WP.

    That being said, that map is good, but far from optimal.



     
  8. Skinnyy

    Skinnyy IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    While all the junk is sorting out after hitting the chest, I like to teleport once. I run down and to the right on my map (remember what Poops said about teleporting to the right). So while I get one teleport in, all the junk gets sorted and I make room for more item tags to display. If there is something worth picking up, I teleport back, if not, I squeezed in an extra teleport(which is usually the case).

    I would also suggest hitting the 200FCR breakpoint. (Once you get spoiled on it though, its hard to go back to 105, and I haven't played a sorc at 63 in a looong time). If you run through town, get 40FRW boots, a Harmony, and cram a bunch of FRW small charms in your inventory.

    On my 17K runs I was hitting only the 6 superchests plus 4 other poppables and was able to bring my run times down to around 30 seconds (with a slower comp and 3-5 second load times). Deciding what to pick up is the hardest part, but the more runs you make (and the more you play d2) the fewer items will be of value to you, so naturally you will start picking up less. But leave gems less than flawless. And cube your pgems as you go. Either mule on a Baal GC before you start your runs, or just reroll one of the GCs from LK.

    Also, it really is worth memorizing the items that drop with Ber/Sur/Vex at least. It gives you peace of mind that you won't miss them. Plus your heart skips a beat every time you get a "almost right" drop.

    Keep popping that corpse by the campfire for sure. I got a lot of really nice rune drops from my two (including a Lo and a Sur). But even not counting those two drops, the drops from those corpses were much better than the log and skeleton I also popped. I think there may be something going on with the campfire corpse. All I need to prove it though is to have someone else get the exact same drop patterns for the Lo/Sur from one of them.
     
  9. maxgerin

    maxgerin IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Very nice "guide" poops! :smiley:
    EDIT: I really <3 the tip about positioning the HCube and the gems that way. :thumbsup:

    After Skinnyy's 17K LK Runs Thread, I've been squeezing in some LK runs to my HFrushes.
    Though HFrushing seems to have become an obsession of mine, I like to break the monotonicity, specially now that I'm spending far more time in the Forge than the past weeks.
    The advices given here will prove to be invaluable to my endeavor.

    BTW, I'm one of those who disagree with poops' Tip #7.
    Nothing technical to prove switching Acts is faster than running around town, but it sure feels that way.
    My current map has 4 Huts. I just make a full circle back to the WP.
    And I hate running around A3 Town. That's my least favorite town.


    --maxgerin
     
  10. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    I have 2 gigs of RAM on my D2 comp, which should be plenty. And you can't only count the time required to switch acts when you start your run - you need to include the time at the end of the run spent returning to the waypoint and moving the mouse around to click on the right things so you restart in Act4 (which is time you don't have with immediate Save&Exit in Act3).

    Also, when you need to visit the stash, the Act3 & FR/W setup is nicer (because the stash is right next to the waypoint and easily 'hitable' - not to mention if you want to sell things instead of throwing the junk on the ground, Ormus is closer than his Act4 counterparts (I average about 300-400k gold er full stash by selling my junk instead of throwing it away, which adds up over thousands of runs).


    FYI, I've actually timed it both ways. It's simply not faster for me with 4 teleports to return to the waypoint and switch acts (it was consistently 1/2 to 1 second slower, under the best of conditions). Knocking a couple of teleports off of that return trip would put it closer to 'even', but that still doesn't make it better.



     
  11. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    1) 2 gigs is indeed plenty, only have 1.5 myself. However, hitting the hotkey for TK while taking one step towards the WP and hitting act3LK takes me at worst 1.5 seconds. There's NO way I'd be able to make up for that by FRW/harmonyswitch running from Meshif to the wp, even using TK. In my map, it's 8 or 9 teleports back to the wp, which is 48-54 frames = around 2 seconds. Now, I *might* be able to run Meshif --> WP in 3.5 seconds, but then I'd have to either get a better circlet with FRW (mine's 2/20/16str, and I'd be hard pressed to find one with decent FRW as well) or omit 200%FCR, which saves around 17% of the time required to teleport around (which isn't THAT much, I'll give you that).

    2) I visit the stash at the end of each run since cain is on the way and it only takes 2 seconds to ID and get to the stash. It's just as fast as doing it your way. I don't have a dedicated goldfinder, but I do have a dedicated pindlerunner, so I don't sell items. That would slow my LK runs more than it slows my pindleruns.

    3)I won't argue with you on that one, I'll just post my map, and you'll easily be able to see it my way:

    [​IMG]
    Shot at 2008-04-18

    It's probably a bit blurry, but the letters are mostly alphabetical.

    G - WP. This is where the run starts and ends
    A - Corpse which always spawns at the campfire
    B - Hut 1A
    C - Hut 1B
    D - Hut 2A
    E - Same as A, but the other campfire
    F - Hut 2B
    back to G.

    With load time, IDing and gem cubing included, this averages somewhere between 35-40 seconds. I did that just now (drinking beer, yay) so I might be able to shave off 2-3 seconds sober. 2-3 seconds more by not picking up *everything* I find interesting which is:

    *Blue ama javelins
    *Any amu
    *Any ring
    *Any jewel ( I keep them for crafting, all of them)
    *Any charm
    *Any sorc orb
    *Any circlet class headgear
    *Yellow gloves/boots/belts/druidpelt/ethweapon
    *runes TAL and above (could've limited this to KO and above, but being a packrat.....)

    I'm actually happy that none of my racks drop base items of interest :)

    Now as final words... This is just how I like to do it. I'm not saying that's how everyone else should do it. Whatever you feel like, do it your way.

    My sorc setup is around 4 posts above this one, no need to repeat myself.



     
  12. Jaago

    Jaago IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    If you're intending to do serious running, change your map. Mine is about as perfect as it gets, especially for returning to act4 after each run; 1-2 teleports. I will probably try the run-through-the-docks method once I get my gear updated for that.

    I have 9x4 space empty in my inventory. I.e. there are only an ID tome and 2 sets of keys (I run out of one occasionally). Could squeeze that down even further by putting ID scrolls to the belt.

    Poops said a lot of reasonable stuff. Turn off the sounds, you can learn to see the charms on the ground instead of hearing them.

    Helvete's pick-up list is very good. Mine is the pretty much the same. (and Flawless gems, too :tongue:).
     
  13. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    EDIT time expired while I was typing. So this is @ above, not below as I intended: Forgot about flawless. They're half the reason I run LK.

    With that much space, why do you need ID scrolls? Visit cain and save yourself time. I keep 2 spaces of keys as well. But I pick up the occational key. If I see that I'm down to one space, I pick up more. If I see that I'm at 3 spaces, I keep from picking them up for a while.

    My LK sorc is my oldest sorc by far. She's lvl 91, not close to the str for spirit. So I gave her fcr rings with str, fcr circlet with +2sorc and str (little bit unnecessary) and a 18fcr amy with str. Even her 9fcr belt has good str. She was retired (leveled from lvl 74 to lvl 91 on the countess alone in her days) but now I have a great use for her, since I'd never MP with that weak a character.
     
  14. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    I never really thought to re-roll my map because I never thought of getting back to the WP to go to Act 4 after the run. Ditching some (or all if I go to A4) of the FRW charms would help a lot though, since then I could hold more stuff and have Cain ID it all at once instead of ID'ing most of it myself with my current 2x4 or 3x4 inventory space.

    I guess if I found a circular map instead of my current linear one, going to A4 wouldn't be a bad idea. Even if it doesn't save time over FRW through Kurast, at the very least it would allow me to open up my inventory space. But like poops said, it's nice to run by Ormus and my stash starting in A3. I wish Cain would buy my stuff from me after he ID's it!

    Do you guys agree with Skinnyy, that the "campfire corpses" drop way better than the other poppable chests, stashes, logs, and corpses? Although even so, I probably won't be able to resist hitting them as I teleport by.

    EDIT: Is there a way to hit 200 FCR without Spirit? My sorc doesn't have near enough strength for a monarch. Right now I can get 140 FCR (Suicide Branch, Vipermagi, Arachnid Mesh, Magefist, and two 10% FCR rare rings). That leaves the ammy, circlet, and shield slots open, but 60 more FCR to go. I don't think any boots give FCR.
     
  15. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    True, I enjoy popping things other than the superchests, but time is still a factor. If I spend 2 hours one afternoon doing LK runs, and I get 120 done, that's fine. But if I can change the way I do things a bit, and the next day I get 180 runs done in the same 2 hours, that's a LOT more efficient.



     
  16. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Nitpick: even at 200 FCR, that's a minimum 56 frames. Also, you've completely discounted moving the mouse to select the WP and then selecting Act4, and finally selecting an A4 waypoint before S&E. Adding these together, I'd bet it's every bit of 3-3.5 seconds before you return to Act4. Throw on that 1-1.5 seconds at the start of Act4, and it's about the same as running through town with ~100 FR/W.

    (BTW, do you ever miss-click the waypoints when switching acts? Cause it's almost impossible to miss-click with running because your mouse can be easily pre-positioned almost exactly where you need to click every time).

    Also fyi, you can still get 200 FCR and have high FR/W setup - Nat's/Aldur's boots + Harmony-switch = 76 FRW (some of which is from skills, so it's more like ~85 FR/W). Throw on a few charms and 100+ FR/W is easily attainable.


    However, we're arguing semantics. I've tried and tried to make switching to Act4 faster, but in the end it's always slower for me. If it's faster for you, then: :thumbsup:



     
  17. Gorgrims

    Gorgrims IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    There was a Guide somewhere explaining poppables, but it seems that logs corpses and stashes are the same to me.


    My run times are around 20 seconds average, I hit nothing on the way, though.
    Add on the time it takes to identify grand and small charms, ( don't pick up LC's. ) It's 23-24 seconds average, With gems added, which takes a lot of time to cube, I don't think i'll get under 25s/run.

    I think the speed is very nice, so far I've gotten up to 146 runs in 60 minutes, but I'll see if i can beat that.


    Gear:

    105% FCR, switch ( Harmony ), Charms, x5 FRW GC, 5x FRW SC ( total 50% ). No other gear is FRW, so that makes for 50% charms + 40% boots + Harmony.

    I have 4x4 slots free, with the exception of keys, and I run over Act3 always.


    Here is the map I've got.

    [​IMG]


    As you can see its the perfect map, albeit few on the nearby objects, I could take 3 corpses in my runs without taking me off the "road". But i chose to go for just the LK chests.


    I havent tinkered with 200% FCR ( I have no 35% spirit nor Griffons.)

    But 105% seems fine. My FRW is 90% from items, and a lvl 10 Vigor, so I'm sure running from start of Act3 to TK range of WP is no longer than 4 seconds. When I get there, it takes very little time popping all 6 chests, I've practiced quite abit, so teleporting onto the chests, is not difficult at all by now.


    Btw, im playing hammerdin, my Sorceress is stripped abit, as I gave him some of the Sorceresses gear.

    normally I'll teleport through LK by switching to Hoto + Spirit instead of the harmony.
     
  18. Skinnyy

    Skinnyy IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Yep. You need lidless wall or wall of the eyeless shield, 20FCR circlet and crafted 20FCR caster amulet. The amulet can take a lot of crafts to get (I've crafted 3 in ~230 tries).


     
  19. o1d_dude

    o1d_dude IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Nice LK maps, gang.

    I'm gonna have to do something about mine.
     
  20. Broncobiv2

    Broncobiv2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: What to do to speed up LK runs?

    Here's my new handy, color-coded LK map. It seems near-perfect for switching to Act 4 instead of running through Act 3. I've only run it twice so far, so I'm not sure if the racks will be worth popping. But I don't think there are many other poppables that will get in my way besides the bonfire corpses. And I'll always pop them no matter what. Time to do some running and test this thing out!
     

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