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What sort of respec system would you prefer?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Runestar, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. Runestar

    Runestar IncGamers Member

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    What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Blizzard has mentioned that there will be some form of option for respeccing in D3, though they did not exactly elaborate on what form it will take. Personally, I am all for the idea of having a means of undoing earlier choices. I myself can imagine several ways it could be implemented.

    1) No holds barred. You can pay an npc gold to get back skill points you had invested earlier in skills, and the extent to which you can respec is limited only by how much gold you have. This suggests that at higher lvs, it may not be impossible to suddenly switch builds (eg: one moment you are a whirlwind barb, then next lv, you are a concentrate barb as you pay to get all your skill points back and invest them in other skills). The most forgiving, and the one which I expect to generate the most controversy.

    Perhaps one way to balance it may be to scale the cost (ie: it becomes progressively more expensive to respec as you do it more often), so that even the most aggressive farmers may eventually find it financially untenable to keep respeccing. .

    2) Some form of limitation. Perhaps you can only undo 1 skill point spent per lv. This could still have its uses (eg: Early on, you pump your lower lv skills. Then at higher lvs, you effectively have 2 skill points to spend - the 1 you get per lv, as well as the extra one you funnel from a lower tier skill to a higher tier one, thus leapfrogging your way up the various tiers). Heck, Blizzard may even try to base its build system around the assumption that players will respec aggressively. In the very least, it would encourage players to spend their points more liberally at lower lvs, rather than hoarding them for later on.

    3) Quest based??? No idea what form this may take though. Perhaps a quest may give you a 1 time option of whether you wish to rebuild your character, and you can save the option for later?

    What other ideas do you have? Or if you think it is a bad idea, feel free to condemn those ideas (as well as explaining why you feel the way you do). :)
     
  2. AniMe

    AniMe Banned

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    The respec system is so far the only REALLY big blunder Blizzard makes for D3.

    If there's a respec system it should be insanely costly so that most people can't afford it without playing a lot. Why?

    To preserve individuality.

    - "Ya'll see LOZ that Frenzy Barb on the ladder?"
    - "Wut? He uses Whirlwind..."
    - "Nuh uh, he's a Concentrate Barb..."

    Long gone will the days be when your in-game choices defined your character..
     
  3. blikst

    blikst IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Bashiok has stated that this is something they are looking into, making it easier to respec for newer characters/new players to test their build in the beginning and make it harder later in the game. He didn't specify directly how, but it could certainly be done in numerous ways, not only gold.


     
  4. xenothaulus

    xenothaulus IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Make it unlimited, free respecs up to 40, and progessively more expensive in some way after that, like half a level's worth of xp. And after 70, you can't respec at all.
     
  5. bkkorps

    bkkorps IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I would like to see it be based on character level for a few reasons. First, as you get higher and higher level, your capacity to farm currency would increase. Second, they arent bringing back synergies. Think about it in a D2 sense, firebolt without synergies would be a 100% useless ability, though to a low level fire sorc it is pretty nice, especially until you can get to fireball. Having the freedom to "waste" points in low level abilities that are going to suck at high levels knowing that you can take those points back later would be nice. Third, it would be nice to be able to try out abilities to see if you like them without ruining your character(like you would in D2.)

    Though, number 2 could be eliminated depending on how the talents work, maybe they can make it so no ability is truly worthless.
     
  6. Galtrovan

    Galtrovan IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    All this thread is going to accomplish in an argument between those for and against respec'ing. Personally, the idea of respec'ing is inane. Ones choices should matter. Undoing an unintended miss-click is as simple as designing the input screen with OK and Cancel buttons in opposite corners of the screen, which must be clicked to confirm or cancel all the choices you made elsewhere in the screen. For example, to assign skill points you enter the skill screen and assign your points. Your choices do not become permanent until you click OK to close the screen. Click Cancel, its as if you never entered the screen.
     
  7. blikst

    blikst IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I don't think miss-clicking is the reason why blizzard are implementing the respec.


     
  8. Starving_Poet

    Starving_Poet IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I would like to see respecs cost gold and have the costs be exponential in nature.
     
  9. paperkut

    paperkut IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    option 1 hands down

    You still have to work to earn the right to respec but your not punished by having your hundred or so hours go to waste. If anything this helps add to the game because if you have to get gold to respec it gives exploring a much needed purpose.
     
  10. Galtrovan

    Galtrovan IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Me either, but this is one of the arguments that people "for respec'ing" use to support their opinion that respec's are needed. While I agree unintended choices, or mishaps should be prevented a respec is not the way to do it.

    As I said before, respecs are silly and your choices should matter.



     
  11. fiero

    fiero IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    4) No respec of any kind.

    Really, respec is lazy, it kills individuality, it trivializes planning and building a character.. I could go on with many more arguments, many of which obviously have been stated before in these kind of threads. At the end of the day respec is a horrendous decision any way you look at it.

    I think that mostly, very casual/lazy players or people that are used to the mmorpg approach to character building (which is based on a very long levelling and exp curve) want to have respecs. Mostly.

    Limited respec wouldn't really make matters better either - even with limitations you can be sure that the system will be abused somehow.

    Honestly, respec is almost game breaking in an ARPG. Why bother with playing the early and mid game again if all it takes is pay X items or do X quest and you're a brand new build. Wait a minute, that is game breaking period.

    I can only hope Blizzard will reconsider before release.
     
  12. Kingu

    Kingu IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I'm for full respec at increasing cost, again it's like it is implemented in wow.
    And for contr argument for guy above me.
    It don't trivialize planing, it just trivalise testing, also i don't think that people will just want to have one character and change theirs skills depending on actual mood or something.
     
  13. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Gee, maybe because there is more to a game than end-game builds? What a genuinely heretical idea!

    Hey, you know what else is game breaking? Levels 1 through 70. They are a total waste of time! Let's have every character start in Hell mode at level 70! No, even better, let's just replace them with a character spreadsheet minigame that requires a 3 day gestation period after hitting "Create" button which you need to fill out. After 3 days passed, your latest saved changes get locked, your brand new spanking character pops into existence, and you can happily go do boss runs for the rest of the character's shelf life.

    Oooh, I got another one! Let's have end-game items come with a special property that "permanently kills character on pick up and deposits all character items into the account stash unless the character fits the perfectly optimized build for that item!" That would really put the planning back into playing Diablo!
     
  14. Fegon

    Fegon IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I don´t think anybody against respecs feels that way.

    Personly i cant think of diablo without builds, free respecs, well as an old grumpy man i just feel that it ruins something in the game. I say limited respecs is the way to go, make those choises count.


     
  15. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    yay respecs how fun now i will only have 5 chars total ever how fun no more testing out builds, learning how to play the game, find out the strength and weaknesses of a build or trying to optimize a build.

    Im sure glad we wont have it like in diablo 2 when you have built several builds of every character.
    (everything above this line is sarcasm)

    For someone like me who have build +40 chars of every char class and next to every build out there respecs is a insult.

    Want to be lazy and never learn anything go play GW or titan quest where you can find find out what free respecs do to a game.

    Myself i wont go near the respecs at all in diablo 3. I might be old school but if i want to try andother build of a char class i make a second char. Its a great way to learn more about the char class at the same time.
     
  16. bkkorps

    bkkorps IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    there is very little about D2 that is complicated and difficult to understand. And while I have made my share of characters, it isnt necessary to play out every possible combination of skills from start to finish(seeing as how most people when leveling an odd build just get rushed) since in most cases, low level viability isnt important.

    If a person pays attention and is astute to game mechanics, it is entirely possible for them to learn a majority of the facets to each character on one play through. In fact, respeccing can give a somewhat lazy person the stepping stone needed to learn the class by trying out several type of skills while leveling. see that cool level 24 ability? now you dont have to gimp yourself by hoarding points until it is available, you can spend them on some other abilities that look fun, and even if they suck you can still get back on track when you get to the level required for the ability.

    as it is in the current game, skills like grim ward, fend, <insert random almost never used skill> dont get any play time by the majority, because in order to test them out, it would require wasting points in their current character, completely leveling a new character(and some of the crappy skills have a fairly high level req), or loading up a single player character who can use the ability(and has basically no gear, so you either spend time hacking him gear, or you dont actually get to see how combat able the skill is.)


    You can say that respecs will mean that you never need more than 1 of each class, but you dont know what the penalty could be for continual respecs. it could end up costing you a large portion of currency, or they could even do something more along the lines of after so many respecs you start getting less points back(say at 80 you have 79 points, and after 25 respecs you only get 78 points back when you respec the 26th time).


    plus, we dont know what kind of item storage capabilities characters will have in D3, so holding onto a gear set for 5 different builds for just one of your characters could end up limiting the space you have available for trade materials.

    if handled correctly, respecs could be a good thing. If handled poorly, then they will be a poor aspect of the game. And with blizz's track record, I would be willing to bet they will handle it correctly.


     
  17. Jinchuu

    Jinchuu Banned

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?


    Some of us have these crazy things called lives and can't devote a large amount of our time to playing a game. Congrats on making a ton of D2 characters I'm sure you'll go very far in life based on that.

    I'm all for respecs as long as Blizzard doesn't make it completely ridiculous to be able to respec.


     
  18. Funkopotamus

    Funkopotamus IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I'm not sure what I think about respecs, but on the topic of individuality - What? The majority of the people currently playing Diablo likely follow builds anyway, hence being able to identify them by build. There may be a little variation but most of the time that is mentioned in the build.

    I guess I'm for respecs, because when I'm following a build I can say "I don't like this one recommended skill as much as I thought I would. I'm gonna work on removing it so I can put more points in this other one I like."

    Yeah, sarcasm is reeeaaaal helpful.



     
  19. mouseman

    mouseman IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    Make it hurt.

    I'd prefer endless respects, but each one would have to permanently weaken your character some. Not too much so one could play through the game even with a couple respects and enjoy the experience, but still enough for making a pro wanting to start over or not do respec-based strategies (like change build mid-game).

    It could be like a secret witch doctor ritual where your body and soul are temporarily separated. It is a painful ritual with permanent consequences. Say, -20 health every point respecced?
     
  20. Runestar

    Runestar IncGamers Member

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    Re: What sort of respec system would you prefer?

    I am not entirely convinced that the ability to respec necessarily means loss of individuality. As pointed out earlier, cookie cutter builds are going to proliferate readily via the internet, and many people are simply going to just copy their character builds and follow them to the letter, right down to where the last stat point goes.

    My rationale for supporting respeccing of some sort stemmed from my key irritation that in pre-1.10 D2, you were never going to put more than 1 point in your lower lv skills because you knew that they would eventually be useless. So players would be hoarding their skill points, putting only the token 1 point in prereqs while toughing it out to the point where they could start pumping their most powerful abilities. It really sucked to play though lv1-11 using just 1 point in firebolt/ice blast. I don't want some build that really only pays off at higher lvs, but is a chore to play before that. Yet if I boosted firebolt early on, I am going to regret it later when I can pump fireball or meteor. Ideally, I should be able to harness the full potential of my character regardless of what lv I am playing.

    The sweet spot should start right from lv1 and apply evenly at all lvs, and not just for a narrow range of lvs.

    Or in the very least, I am not seeing any compelling arguments as to why this would be the case, simply claims that it would ruin the game by destroying individuality. Perhaps those opposing this feature could take some time to explain more elaborately how this may be so. :)

    I am not so much trying to start a flame war as I am trying to understand both sides of the argument better. Everyone has been doing a very good job of being civil so far, so please keep it that way. Thanks. :D
     

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