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What runewords to build after "essentials"?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ffs, Feb 28, 2017.

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  1. ffs

    ffs Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm at that point right now and I need some advice. :)

    My list would be in the following order:
    • Dreams (should make powerful Zeal Pala, Sorc and other builds)
    • low req Beast (useful for Nec, and especially Bearsorc as well)
    • Faith (obv only Bowie, but I like her so that's why.. not even sure whether GMB or Merc bow though)
    • Phoenix (probably Zeal Pala, but not sure whether difference in DPS output compared to HoZ)
    • Bramble (PN Nec - I love Enigma but maybe for Cows it's better?)
    Close but "no thanks" for now, though please do correct me if my assessment is wrong as to why it's not worth it:
    • Exile (Zeal Pala is basically immortal anyway, and ofc Decrepify > Life Tap)
    • Chaos (probably worse than pure Traps or KT/Rift sin?)
    • Pride (use is too limited, basically worse than Reaper's except maybe for Bowie using Faith herself)
    • Ice (use is too limited)
    • Hand of Justice (use is too limited)
    • BotD (total style, but no Zod or even suitable eth BA in sight :) yet!)
    Remaining HR runewords: Basically between "useless" and "doing way too little for runes used".

    Very interested in your opinion. Do you guys have any experiences or recommendations to share?

    Especially regarding Dreams as "next thing to do".

    (Already down regarding Ohm+ runewords: Infinity, Enigma, CoH, 2x Grief PB (both average), good CtA, Fortitude, ebug Fortitude)
     
  2. Turbocannon

    Turbocannon Diabloii.Net Member

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    TBH, my philosophy has always been "whatever I think would be fun to use, or important for a build that I'd find fun to play". If that means spending expensive runes on something with very little utility besides one specific build, then do that! Fun is more important than minmaxing, especially in singleplayer which isn't competitive at all.
     
  3. Mezion

    Mezion Diabloii.Net Member

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    The ones with some cool abilities are always welcome. For example, I'm a sucker for all necro-stuff so Brand and Oath are up there on my list. Brand in particular is pretty fun and can be build around.
     
  4. T72on1

    T72on1 Diabloii.Net Member

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    I agree with @Turbocannon here. After the essentials, it's all about having fun. Even if that means you create it for one build only.

    In that respect, I can advice to make a Furywolf with a Doom weapon and Phoenix shield. That one is high on my list after the essentials. I'm currently doing a WW Sin, which is also lots of fun. And Ohms aren't exactly too expensive, so ...

    Also check some of @Grape 's pat / mat threads. He has made some cool builds with cool items. Maybe you can get some ideas there.

    I agree with Dreams and low req Beast being there at the top of the list, btw. I must say though, that those are the only ones from your list that I have actually made myself, so people more wealthy than me are better placed to tell you about other runewords.
     
  5. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks for the mention @T72on1 :) Mat/Pat/Guardian thread can be a huge inspiration overall regarding all kinds of build.

    Sometimes it's better to wait for the inspiration when it comes to making runeword X, until you're trying the RW Grail. Even then I'd hold on with some, if I could come up with a fun use with them.

    +1 for making 'Faith' in a non-zon only bow btw. Definitely makes some obscure builds more viable.
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I would put Faith at #1.

    If you had a Zod rune and no truly awesome ethereal, non-indestructible item which is not for a merc, what else than BotD would be an option?

    I think BotD belongs into a two-hander, else it's just an alternative to Grief. Make it in a CB if you want a one-handed option as well, else a GPA (will meet the final WW breakpoint as well). Yes, a BA is a small bit faster than a CB, but it's just 5% (which is irrelevant for WW, by the way) and a CB or GPA look and sound more badass on a barb while a BA appears a bit cheesy.

    I think Dream belongs into the latter category as well. You need two of them to have a significant effect in hell mode and I don't think that the builds involving them are more effective than others. BTW, you will also need Infinity on a merc if conviction isn't provided by the main character.
     
  7. ffs

    ffs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks for the responses so far!

    Well, for now I'm doing nothing due to being one Ber short of building two Dreams, but I'm pretty heavily leaning towards this. Sounds super fun... though Faith is still a contender. :)
     
  8. Brak

    Brak Diabloii.Net Member

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    Destruction was the first high runeword I made, so it really comes down to what kinds of Diablo II related activities you find enjoyable

    If you have all the essentials, then it really doesn't matter beyond what will let you have a good time
     
  9. Darkthrone

    Darkthrone Diabloii.Net Member

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    I would not recommend Pride unless you either a) have a lot of runes; b) have a very specific use-case; or c) have made pretty much everything else you want and you're bored.

    I have one. I made it with the intention of using it with my skellymancer but had no idea that hit blinds target overrode curses, so while it's nice against multiple enemies, for single enemies (like act bosses) it sucks. While I have considered carrying a Reaper's Toll to switch when fighting act bosses, the annoyance of having to constantly swap weapons on the mercenary leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so I just avoid using it. Unfortunate because it's a very expensive runeword.

    My Amazon has a Faith (matriarchal bow with +3 skills) but I use Reaper's Toll with my mercenary. The decrepify procs pretty much instantly. I use Atma's Scarab on her, too, and you'd be surprised how often the 5% chance to cast amplify damage procs. Most effective of course when used with strafe. Basically everything is cursed in some fashion with her. I've used the Pride with her mercenary only for a cursory amount of time so I can't say for certain whether it would be better than a Reaper's Toll. As mentioned above, it's a very expensive runeword.

    I'm currently thinking about a Phoenix shield as well for my zealot, but there are reports that the chance to cast Firestorm can be really bothersome. I think I'm going to stick with my Herald of the Zakarum for a while, or until my high rune count is much higher. The potential 400% enhanced damage is very attractive, though.
     
  10. Brak

    Brak Diabloii.Net Member

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    For the CTC procs, any timered skill will cause an 11 frame delay. So while this is a non-starter for single attack based skill, its not so bad for stringed attacks like Zeal, Strafe, Fury, or Dragon Talon as the procs will only be an issue if they trigger on the last couple hits of the attack cycle. You should be able to calculate the particulars of your gear. This also lends itself towards slower hurtier weapons and missing breakpoints that you might not normally miss because you won't lose as much efficiency with less attack speed in these cases.
     
  11. BKC

    BKC Diabloii.Net Member

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    I had a lot of fun with Hand of Justice (in a bow) and i played a multishot bowazon with it (together with dream and faith on the merc :) It is a killing machine.
     
  12. Dodgydave

    Dodgydave Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm one Ber away from dual Dreams as well and that's what I'm aiming for (though good knows how long it will take me to find one as I'm far from efficient at these things.)

    I just found dual Dreams so much fun on Battle.net.

    Heck, I don't even have Enigma yet!
     
  13. ffs

    ffs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Interesting, I thought the reason people like to use Pride with Bowie (when using Faith yourself) is due to being ranged and the Merc basically not reaching mobs often so Decrepify doesn't do quite as much as for melee chars.

    Then again, I was never thinking about going for Pride. :)
     
  14. helvete

    helvete Diabloii.Net Member

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    Act bosses are immune to AI curses, so that should only apply to normal monsters.

    Pride is pretty awesome for windforce builds, especially due to the fact that x/2/2/2/2/2/2 strafe is impossible.
     
  15. Darkthrone

    Darkthrone Diabloii.Net Member

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    @ffs
    I've been doing Chaos Sanctuary runs with her and generally I keep the mercenary and decoy in front of me while I shoot. She simply doesn't do enough damage to clear out packs of monsters before the mercenary "catches up", so he's always around it only takes about a second before the decrepify activates. It's very noticeable (obviously) when it does.

    Maybe in a week or so if I feel more up to it I'll do a comparison of like 100 Chaos Sanctuary runs between the two and see if there's a noticeable difference.

    @helvete
    Interesting. I'm going to have to try again because I remember way back (years ago now) when I made it and tried it out, I was met with disappointment because it severely diminished my telestomping abilities. But maybe that was just monsters in general. I've been running Baal with my skellymancer recently so I'll give it another go.
     
  16. ffs

    ffs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Okay, I'm just as wise as before now haha.

    Anyway good points raised here, at least I'm going to stick to the next runewords mentioned, though not sure about the exact order yet.

    What base did you build it in? Just asking since if it was only for Merc I wouldn't care about damage, but that could be a mistake. ;)
     
  17. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Before starting obscure builds or equipping mercs with soemthing like that, I recommend to build up a robust core of solid characters ;)

    To my knowledge, this means that the breakpoints are x/3/3/3... instead, but the smaller value of x still makes up a difference. There are also a couple of situations in which strafe isn't a good attack, so high attack speed is still useful.
     
  18. Drystan

    Drystan Diabloii.Net Member

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    [Source: Guardian Kara, WW'sin]

    I wouldn't put it past Chaos Claws. I agree with most of the above. Do what sounds like the most fun and interesting to you. Chaos may not be better than a Trapper, but if the sound of casting Cloak of Shadows, WW'ing through demons unmolested, and slaughtering demons claw to claw sounds good, give Chaos a go.
    I have to admit, it is only an Ohm, and not even close to the scale of the rest you mentioned. If you've got the options for the high level runewords, a single Ohm wouldn't break-the-bank. I had a blast with my Chaos-sin, based on my Guardian thread.

     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  19. ffs

    ffs Diabloii.Net Member

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    Let me clarify I do indeed have a very robust core of solid characters (too many, rather), using very good straight-forward builds and gear. No goals regarding any other runewords or S&Us apart from roll upgrades and some grailers I wouldn't use anyway. Maybe my number of posts doesn't imply that I played this game very seriously over long stretches in the last 15 years, but I did, so I hope this gives you some peace of mind and qualifies me to look for new gear and builds. :)

    I have never tried Dream characters myself, not even on bnet, so I can't speak from experience. But honestly I believe labeling it as an obscure inefficient build is kind of underestimating the potential, and most importantly the fun. ;)

    That is true and I'm sure I will try it at some point for sure, just a matter of priority. :)
     
  20. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Mine is on Shadow Bow. A bit high requirements, but few merc levels take care of that.

    The faster bows are great options too. Like Diamond Bow for example.
     
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