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What MF needed for TC 83-85

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by Hammerman, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. Hammerman

    Hammerman IncGamers Member

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    What MF needed for TC 83-85

    How much MF would a char need to find good items in TC class 83-85 areas?
    I am trying to plan out every aspect of MF before I make the char and anyone that knows alot about MF runs please message me or whisper me on USEast Odin.Allfather or Loki.Trickster

    Thank You!
    Damien Rhodes
     
  2. pliu

    pliu Banned

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    MF have nothing relate to TC
     
  3. Hammerman

    Hammerman IncGamers Member

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    Well if TC means teh lvl in which the creature can drop a item, then what would X amount of mf do to improve that it will drop a higher lvl item?
     
  4. moi

    moi IncGamers Member

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    there is no tc83, there is no tc85, and mf has nothing to do with which tc a monster drops.
     
  5. Hammerman

    Hammerman IncGamers Member

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    ok ty but there are many charts on these forums about TC85 84 and 83 areas
     
  6. moi

    moi IncGamers Member

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    I think not.
     
  7. pliu

    pliu Banned

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    there are no charts about TC 85 84 and 83 areas. There are charts about
    area_lvl 85 84 and 83 areas. Such as pit is area_lvl 85 area.
     
  8. kuza

    kuza IncGamers Member

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    Instead of being an a$$, why not just inform him of what area level and TC means?
     
  9. unseenSNIPER

    unseenSNIPER IncGamers Member

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    There ARE TC's 83 and 85. They moved TC 87 down to TC 85.
     
  10. Jarulf

    Jarulf IncGamers Member

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    People talk to much without knowing what they talk about, or are simply making up stuff as they go. Hard to know which one at times.

    The often seen "TC XX" is really something that is partly wrong and partly confusing and should never have been initiated. The game uses a quite complex system for creating items, based on treasure classes (TC). A monster will basically have an initial TC from which an item will be picked. In the more simple form, a TC is one huge list of possible items. Technically, A TC is actually made up of both individual base items and other sub TCs which are in turn lists of other base items and even more sub TCs. So basically we have a sort of recursive system of TCs but in the end, we end up with TCs only containing base items and no more sub TCs.

    Now, most base items that are equipable (that would be armor and weapons) are grouped into various sub TCs based on their level. Internally, in the games internal data tables for TCs, they will be called "weapXX", "armoXX". There are also others for bows for example and a few other groups of items. XX is simply a value that goes up by three. So we have a weap03, a weap06 and so on all the way up to weap90 (and same for armoXX). Sucha a sub TC will have all weapons (for example) with a level equal to the number and lower but higher than the one before, so weapons in weap30, has a level of 30 down to 28 (since those with 27 would be in weap27).

    IS this really important for most people? No, not in my opinion, but people started to use these and instead of refering to weapXX and armoXX, they then started to say TCXX instead. In my opinion, one could simply skip all the "TC" talk and simply say, items up to level 78, intsead of TC78. That would avoid all confucion over the internal workings of TCs since there are a LOT more to it than just those few special weapXX and armoXX stuffs.

    IN addition, with the new system the game use to handle TCs, where a monster can have its initial TC upgraded, based on its level, which in turn is upgraded based on the map areas level, we get a highly confusiong situation, resulting in threads like this.

    By the way, from the above, we can conlude that there is NO "TC83" or "TC85", no matter what one call things. There hasn't been any "moved" TCs. You simply can't move them any way, they are hard coded sort of. What one can do is change the level of base items so that some of them end up in a different hard coded weapXX or armoXX sub TC. This happened in 1.10 by the way, most (if not all) items with a level above 87 had it lowered to something less (often 85). They thus end up in another sub TC and the armo87 and weap87 sub TCs are in fact empty currently (and not even refered to through other "higher" TCs.

    As allready mentioned in the thread, the MF of a character has absolutely NOTHING to do with what base item is selected, and thus has absolutely nothing to do with the TC system. It only affects te quality of items.
     
  11. Hakai_no_Tenshi

    Hakai_no_Tenshi IncGamers Member

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    Props to Jarulf. I have tried many times to explain the difference but it would appear that some people will never understand. I wish I had your patience, my friend ..... *sigh*. Unfortunately, making a FAQ for all this will not help because it will never be read either. :rolleyes:

    --T
     
  12. sangfagel

    sangfagel IncGamers Member

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    Yes - it´becouse new people is still coming to these forums (very good indeed! - you are welcome :clap: ) and they become confused confronting too much new therms and theory. I was hear a while now and have still much to learn about this game.
    Anyway - everybody can learn some basics about TC and item generation from:
    http://www.diabloii.net/items/tc1.shtml
     
  13. Jarulf

    Jarulf IncGamers Member

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    In my opiniom, it is EXACTLY pages like that one that causes more confusion and errors than they solve. In an attempt to try to explain things, they loses themselves in technicalities that are irrelevant to the target audience they have. Really, the exact mechanisms of the TC system is for 99% of the players irrelevant. It is irellevant if you want to explain how items are generated as well. The only case it is relevant is if you want to start discussing how to actually calculate odds and such and very few people are really into that. In addition, a page such as that doesn't have even close to the information needed anyway.

    As I said, I would skip TCs at all for that type of information, and simply go by the fact mentioning that monster A (or whatever you want to base it on, like in map A), base items up to level XX can drop. THat gives the EXACT same info as starting to mess with sub TCs, and doesn't make people think up all kind of strange ideas, and missunderstanding how items that are NOT weapons or armor work for example. That is my own opinion though.

    By the way, what the heck is the deal with having some big final Fantasy stuff come donw and cover 2/3 of the screen looking at the page anyway? ONe can't put it away and since it covers most of the page, it is impossible to read the tables or the text. What a braindead idea to have it. So since I can't read the pages (lucklilly I don't use IE at home), I can't really see if all the erros and such are still there, but they didn't appear to be updated for 1.10 and still have quite a few errors left that they used to have.

    Not trying to say the pages is of no use though, but could have been done in a much better way considering what the target reader is.
     
  14. sangfagel

    sangfagel IncGamers Member

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    Notice that I wrote everybody can - not MUST.
    How do you exactly do your estimation what is relevant for 99% players?
    I reccommended this page for DEFINITIONS mainly - to help new people to use right words when they ask their questions and AVOID confusion.
     
  15. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    difficult to anderstand all these TC TCS LVL CLVL ILVL ALVL PDR WEAPXXX when you are a newbe and/or english is not you're favorite langage.

    anyway the first question was : how much MF I need to find very good items ???? (because I only find rings of cathans)
     
  16. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    But it's not needed to play, only if you want to know more about the game mechanics.

    0%. That's the minimum, more MF increases the chance that an item is of a higher quality. Of course, it's subjected to dimishing returns first, so having 1000% is overdoing it IMO.

    Cathan's Seal is a very useful ring at Clvl 11, I collect them just for that reason :)

    If you can handle 11 hours of killing Pindle, I would call you pretty patient as well... I'm surprised you didn't turn into a minion of Pindleskin :teeth:

    It's the latest generation of annoying pop-ups. They always have a close button hidden somewhere, try using the Windows magnifying class to find it :p
     
  17. Jarulf

    Jarulf IncGamers Member

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    I know you didn't write must, and as I said, it has many good things. The definitions not nessecarilly on the page you linked to (I could not read it anyway due to the stupid add covering it) but on other item generation pages are in fact not always correct AND, then they are not used in the way they define it on the actual data pages and so on. On top of that, post of the "definitions" and abbreviations are NOT needed and ALSO causes confusion and problems. Abbreviations and such are needed if you want to do formulas, otherwise I see no reason to write them. Much better to use the actual words, why write mlvl or clvl instead of just "level" or if unclear, the monster's level or monster level. That way you don't end up having posts asking "what is the mlvl of a chest" and get a person replying that the mlvl=ilvl for chest and so on (Yes, I have seen that and many other things).

    As I said though, the pages also has lots of good things, but the general level and purpose of the pages are just not done in a good way I think.

    As for 99% of people, I would say that the ammount of people that have any use for the technical inner workings of the game is even smaller than 1% since you don't need it unless you are going to make calculations on item drops (for example). And if you want to do that, those pages won't help AT ALL, since they miss most of the info needed anyway. It is for sure not needed to understand general item drops or "what is possible were" and all other such typical questions. Actually, I can probably count the questions I have seen in these forums on my fingers, were an answer that actually NEEDED the TC system explained were done.
     
  18. AFBrat

    AFBrat IncGamers Member

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    Its amazing to me this simple question generated such a response.

    I would say at least 100% MF to run The Pits, as I've said many times before it didn't take me too long to get a nice collection of elite uniques there without ever having greater than 140% MF :)

    100% - 350% MF is what I would suggest, anything over 350% should not slow you down AT ALL, otherwise its not worth the xtra MF.
     
  19. sangfagel

    sangfagel IncGamers Member

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    Oh boy... I thing you just need to argue... And if that´s nothing to argue for you need argue for ... nothing. I like you anyway so... forget me and.. good night.
     
  20. sangfagel

    sangfagel IncGamers Member

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    A good m-finder should have ca 400 mf = 150% chance to find uniques. Every point over this amount is just not effective - you need come to 1000 (1 kilo) mf to get 200% chance to find uniques. And you still will find a lot of useless uniques. So - you can do much better working on TC (hallo Jarulf :lol: ) I mean, your mobility and killing power - so that you can with easy and really fast target some monsters who really can drop what you need.
     

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