Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

What is the point of PvP?

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by dennabsawi, Sep 30, 2006.

  1. dennabsawi

    dennabsawi Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What is the point of PvP?

    A simple question really. However I feel the answer isn't as simple.

    With the current PvP system, is there any point to duels anymore? With the presence of hacks and dupes and bots and all the other shortcuts to effort that are available.

    I want to hear some opinions about the set up of player vs player, and how y'all see it. After endless mfing and questing, baalruns out the wazoo, Pvp is where you SHOULD be able to take your char and test it vs the open public. But can you really go toe to toe with another and get a fair shake? Will you be wrapped with bone in the middle of your duel with someone else? Or perhaps laden with a blizz storm as your zealer is swinging it out with another zealot? Should I not be able to choose to NOT fight someone, the same way I can choose to not party with someone?

    If only it were that simple. But its not. Why not? Is there any reason for the madness, and what comes from it? Usually in the end its the guy that buys his items on ebay and has shortcut his way to glory, that will own the duel. Leaving the others no recourse but to leave the game in hopes of a good duel somewheres else. Some char classes don't match up with others. Godly elite zeal Pvp's often times have all neg resist. Built this way to stand strong in melee fights. One sorcy with a chip on his/her shoulder can run a whole game full of zealers out. They were there before the sorcy came, having fun and dueling straight. Then enter the BM'er. He announces his presence with a roaring sweep of bad mannered strife.

    What I'm getting at is how do you guys see it, if they switched to mutual hosteling? How would this impact the dueling arenas?

    My opinion is that it would reinvigorate the duel rooms. Many many of the guys I used to duel with, seldom travel into pub duels anymore. Because they ask "why?", "whats the point man, they full of jerks". You rarely "duel" anyone as it is. A duel by definition is a physical contest between two parties to establish superiority. In D2 a duel is 8 people running around trying to catch the other off guard and swipe him to the ground when hes not looking. Then prevent him from playing anymore by guarding his only hopes of redemption, his body. A duel in D2 is fighting 2-7 people at once. A duel in D2 is 8 people flying around jacking each other up unfairly as can be, then spamming the hate filled massages of "noob remake ez cry sit town S/E".

    In the case of mutual hosteling, I doubt the language of antagonism would undergo any change. But the definition of the word "duel" would come to be. No longer can one end another's game by any means necessary. Now they have to fight square or not at all.

    I know the typical retorts for this proposition, and they are all flawed beyond reason. I could just leave the game if I don't like it. But thats not in the best spirit is it? I could only duel private with my friends. But what fun is that after a while. The same people day in and day out. And then what if they aren't on at the time? No duel I guess.
    What if its just because I suck and I'm no good at making chars? Or what if Its actually because I choose to be different and make a ww sin or pure zealot, but cant evade the constant bm casters that invade the melee games I make?

    There must be a better way. A way that all can be happy. Allow the GM duelers to have their duels without interruption and BM tactics being levied against them. Allow the BM'ers to have their 'all for one cage match' duels when ans where they want. There must be choice. There must be order. But there isn't and blizz seems to lend hand to that which cripples this game. The cheaters, the BM'ers, the hackers have at it. While the good guys look on scratching their heads at all the foolishness.
     
  2. Leohappy

    Leohappy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    yeah i'd have to agree, the public pvp games are pretty much free for all
    team duels seem to be the best (4v4)
     
  3. Smithenator

    Smithenator IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    the games seem to vary alot when I play, some games are really bad, some are quite gm. It also helps if you have at least an ok char, harder to nk,tg,etc. Also, I dont know what everyone is talking about when they say there are alot of hacks, maybe its just my realm but I dont think I ever see hacks...I mean besides fc.
     
  4. GreyGhost

    GreyGhost Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2006
    Messages:
    520
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It would be cool if they would incorporate different games, like capture the flag, individual and melee challenges, or pvp quests that you can do over and over.

    Or just let you ban jerks from your duels.
     
  5. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    120
    As for people interfering your 1v1 duels, pick a spot to duel somewhere that's not the Blood Moor, and where the others wont find. Just you and the other guy. Harem duels are ok, since it's not too far to run back when you die. Basically anywhere near wp's in acts 1, 4 and 5 (since the respawn point is close to the town wp).
     
  6. TurbulentTurtle

    TurbulentTurtle IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    10,413
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    256
    It sounds like you had some bad PvP experiences. I have those games from time to time, but once in a while you'll find a cool game where everyone is really cool and it's not surprise duel or anything. People usually agree to a duel before they exit the town, and it's friendly. Those are the kinds of games I look forward to. Occasionally you'll make a friend in the dueling circle and that's worth it to me.
    With the town guarding crap though, I usually minimize D2 for a bit, surf the forums. Watch some videos, come back and the guy is usually gone. If not, watch some more crap.
    I like dueling because of the rare games you find like I mentioned above, and also because it makes you feel like a GG when you beat some trash-talking noob. Oh, and the trash talking that takes place is hilarious. I enjoy that too.
     
  7. Evrae Altana

    Evrae Altana IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    15,336
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    168
    You might want to try out the Player Matchup forum when looking for duels. You could organize a private duel in there, which helps prevent idiots from ruining your game.
     
  8. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    I'm not so sure about that. Mutual hostiling does sound like a great idea for dueling games, but it changes the nature of the beast that is bnet in other ways too. Although I rarely do it, I take comfort in the fact that I could hostile someone if he/she is being a jerk and doing something annoying.

    For example, very recently I joined a random game to check my stash. It turned out that someone there was offering an occy for help with his forge and with diablo. The guy who joined the game had cleared the way to the forge, but insisted on taking the forge instead of the occy after they'd agreed that the payment would be the occy. To cut a long story short, after trying to reason with the guy, I eventually hostiled him and killed em, guarding his body long enough for the rushee to get his forge. I couldn't have done that had there been mutual hostiling.

    Also, an entire stream of playing would be eliminated. PKing. For better or worse, its part of the game and, although I happen to be someone that has lost two high level HC characters to pkers, I still think it should stay in the game. It makes life more interesting on bnet.

    I see two other solutions.

    1. Give the game creator kick and ban privileges in his game. That way, you can just create your own "GM duels here" game and kick or ban anyone you don't like from that game. The inherent problem with that solution is that it would allow people to abuse the system by doing things like letting people kill bosses for them, then kick them out before they can get the drops, or just kick people out when they have multiple bodies on the ground, etc.

    2. We could borrow a system used in Tribes, where a person could initiate a vote to kick someone. Everyone will have hotkeys for voting yes/no. The voting usually stayed open for about 20 seconds or so, giving the person some warning that he might be getting kicked out soon. If the vote passes, the person is kicked out. If the vote fails, the person who intiated the vote to kick can't intiate any more votes for another 3 minutes. That would eliminate kids on a power trip from kicking people on a whim or just being plain mean and kicking them with multiple corpses on the ground. That system has worked to great effect on Tribes and I think it could work here too. If everyone is having fun with melee duels and a sorc begins to rain on your party, simply vote to kick. Enough votes, sorc gone.
     
  9. BluzMan

    BluzMan Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So any game with at least 4 jerks becomes impossible to play. Whoa, do you imagine how often that would happen?

    Once you transfer power from the strong to the numerous, all is ruined. Majority can't effectively rule.
     
  10. WebDragon

    WebDragon IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    You'd be suprised. Jerks will quite often vote off other jerks as well. The profile of the ones that deserve to be kicked often doesn't include the social skills necessary for them to be liked enough by their peers to not be voted off.

    The way the system would work is that you'd need 5 yes votes to be kicked off. The kickee's vote would be counted along with the rest. Absetentions would count as 'No' votes. So, the people in the game would have to be in serious agreement that they don't want that person in the game for him to be kicked.

    Besides, the OP was complaining about the bad apples that start this off. That would assume that the majority would vote yes against the person ruining their fun.

    On the flip side, if you do end up in a game with at least 4 jerks, take it as a blessing that you get kicked out. Who'd want to play with them anyway? :cool:
     
  11. theBizz

    theBizz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I agree with you that there are lots of BM idiots in duels games who honestly think that by making you sitting in town/nking you they will superior to you. And it really makes me laughing. Especially when a hammerdin with top-gear comes in, hostles everyone, clears the duel filed ( actually by killing already duelling ppl ~~ ) and than stands in front of the town exit spamming hammers, crying "game owned game owned game onwed...". All i can say is "gg, you'r the real gosu" :thumbsup:

    So i see following solutions:

    - you can find duel partners here
    - you can duel in closed duel games where are strict rules so that you wont be humiliated/nked/your gold wont be stolen from you and etc
    - as you have already mentioned, you can duel with your m8's, plus i'll add that you can duel with the frieds of your m8's also :smiley:


    When im playing public duel and see that i cant defeat a gang of BM nkes who attack you like a swarm, i usually dont waste my time b*tching with them or /f m "Can some1 help me out with the game xxxx duels?" Imo ignoring this just better than to start the 3rd world war "you + godliest of your friends vs the swarm of BM guys who nked/whatever bad did to you".

    Fair and fun duells for you.
     
  12. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    First off, to the OP, well put... I've almost stripped my bone necro because I get no return/fun out of him... Despite the gear, the stats, the everything, I just can't last more than 2 hits from either melee or casters... Kinda sucks... But, PvP really isn't my thing any way...

    I did have a thought about the mutual hostility thing... Perhaps it should be an option at game creation, among others... We can already set level limits, but what about class limits too? That would certainly put a damper on casters crashing a melee party... For hard core though, I'd have to say that the danger element should remain...

    I kinda like the idea of a "room owner" kinda thing, like in chat rooms... A nice moderated game could be nice, and I think a bit more desirable than the way it is now... Although, other bad things will come with it... Basically, we would be trading one set of problems for a different set of problems...

    *Requiem_Death
     
  13. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    So you want to be able to give someone permission to express hostility towards you?

    Imagine that in real life: someone tries to rob a bank and points a gun at the first person, who says: "I don't give you permission to point that gun to me and I don't give you permission to rob this bank", with the robber putting his gun back into his pocket and slowly leaving the bank with a depressed look on his face :grin:

    Doesn't make much sense now does it?
     
  14. Merick

    Merick IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,862
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Why not just make your own duel game with a player cap? You don't have to let 7 townguarding, nking jerks in.
     
  15. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    No, but we're not talking about real life... Just ways to make the game more fun... I mean, there isn't any kevlar vests out there that give 20% faster "I just got shot" recovery... Come to think of it, I don't really know anyone that can raise the dead, morph into a bear, throw balls of fire, etc...

    Not trying to be a butt, just making an observation...
     
  16. dennabsawi

    dennabsawi Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Its the presence of "purchased" characters and the like that has swung the balance of power.

    Games aren't about real life, quite the opposite actually.
     
  17. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    No, but everything is based upon logic and/or something we know from real life, right?

    I'm just pointing out that certain parts are only logic:

    You need to be stronger to carry heavier items.
    With lots of items, you'll run slower.
    You can't keep running forever, you'll run tired.
    You can train yourself in various ways, but you're limited eventually, you can't keep learning/training to become more powerfull after certain points.
    Humans can't fly.
    etc...

    So, why would you be able to choose who'd you be hostile to and who don't?It only makes sense that if someone flings a sword at you, you can't stop it simply by saying you don't want to fight?

    Even in all the magic and weird worlds etc, there is still basic logic.
     
  18. RequiemDeath

    RequiemDeath IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    And if a soldier shoots another fellow soldier in the back, then the bullet should go through him without harming him, since they are allied, right?

    *Requiem_Death
     
  19. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Well I never said I liked that either :rolleyes:

    But everyone wants to adjust bits and pieces so the game is more into their advantage (see all suggestions in this thread)

    Although I'm not content either with the current system (it is semi player friendly) people want a 100% player friendly environment, while the logic way would be a 0% player friendly place.



    * Logically you'd be able to stab your friends in their back, kill and target anything and anyway, even in town.

    * Player friendly you're only able to stab people after hostiling and killing monsters and don't be able to do anything in town.

    * And now you lads want to take it up another nodge by declaring you'd have to agree to be able to be stabbed to death?

    It doesn't make much sense to me :grin:
     
  20. BloZ

    BloZ IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    523
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    The hostile system is fine as it is. It puts some action in Hardcore and you can hostile annoying people...
     

Share This Page