Lyndis said:

i am now completely confused

Can you explain that to me step by step?

Grief has a set amount of damage. Without Beast, you will have to put 36 points more into STR, but since the other user gains the 36 from the Beast, he will at most have 4% more ED from STR.

The there is Beast. It has quite a low damage. It however adds str (40% ED) and Fanatiscm (186% ED), which in turn give Grief effectively 41.9% more damage (226 / 539), which is a LOT.

Now, the amount of Beast does 49.2% the damage that a Grief does.

So now we have a mathematical calculation:

100 - (100 - 49.2) + 41.9

It is solved like this:

100 - (100 - 49.2) + 41.9=

100 - 50.8 +41.9=

49.2 + 41.9 =

91.1

So, Grief+Beast does effectively 91.1% of the damage of 2 Griefs. However, since there is no CB or OW counted in, Beast would add WAY more, since it has 25% OW (which btw is 542.1875 added damage over 8 seconds). Now, to make sure if Grief+Beast is superior to Grief+Grief, we would need a set amount of life (due to CB) and a set amount of time (due to OW). Without these two, you cannot possibly compare them by anything except looking.

Now, do you think that the effective add that OW gives to Beast in 2 WW frames (first and second hitcheck) would be greater than the 8.9% missing?

We do not know, since I am too lazy to count it. However, counting in that any PvP char has at least 2500 life (except Bow and javazons, but those guys get a HUGE *effective* life due to dodge and avoid (it literally multiplies their effective life by the dodging percentage), so we can expect at least 50 added damage from Beast (250 * 0.2). This 50 damage is 2% added to Beast's damage. Then there's the OW, which would add no damage unless we let the frames pass. So now Beast has 50.3% of the damage of Grief.

So we got another calculation:

100 - (100 - 50.8) + 41.9 =

100 - 49.2 + 41.9 =

50.8 + 41.9 =

92.7%

So we have just added an effective damage of 1.6%, without counting in the added damage-over-time you get via CtH.

However, without OW we cannot possibly know if Beast would do the amount of 2 Griefs.

Now, if we were to add DR%, OW and PvP penalty, Beast+Grief would be way closer if not over Grief+Grief, due to the fact that OW is only reduced to 1/4th in PvP.

However, I think that MCM has done the calculations, and the difference was slight, to the side of Beast+Grief.

So you see now, we are comparing a Beast-enchanced Grief versus a normal Grief.

If you want to, I can look up the calculations MCM did (he compared Grief+Grief, Grief+Beast, EBotd+Beast, and all of them with Fortitude). However I cannot post it here because it's not on these forums, so it's against of the rules.