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What, exactly, is Anti-Americanism?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Suicidal Zebra, May 19, 2005.

  1. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    What, exactly, is Anti-Americanism?

    Well, here is a thread for me to go to sleep on and hopefully wake with loadsa responses (yeah, right :lol: ).

    Anyway, the phrase anti-American is bandied about a lot nowadays, here there and everywhere. It is become used by some to mean varying degrees of 'I disagree with you' to 'you are wrong and thought Stalin was a sexy beast' but I have heard noone give a satisfactory answer to what it is to be antiamerican, and what antiamericanism specificly is.

    How is this different from say 'I disagree with the current ruling parties policy', or is it even that different. Dictionary.com defines 'antiamericanism' as:

    Which is one whole lot of ground that almost everyone can have been in at one time or another, over some topic or another. With that in mind should anyone take any notice of this term given it's loose terminology and almost unbounded definition? Is it at all useful to anyone but those wanting to make political capital out of American Patriotism?

    Please guys and gals, be specific. What would make me anti-American as opposed to simply critical of US policy? What makes France anti-American (as has often been stated) and does this also make America anti-French, and by extension anti-British and anti-European? Seriously, this has been bugging me for a long time.

    All replies, not matter how silly, are welcome. Just so long as I get some replies this time :D.
     
  2. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Modern liberalism aka socialism aka communism.
     
  3. Garbad_the_Weak

    Garbad_the_Weak IncGamers Member

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  4. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    So, socialism is anti-American? Does that include every form of state-run service including such as free at the point of delivery schooling and the like?

    Again, you cast a pretty wide net that includes one hell of a lot of fish. Are we to assume that Americans (or rather those that believe as you do) have a persecution complex of some kind.

    As I say, be specific man. :)
     
  5. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Smeg, I don't think you have any idea of what socialism is. Socialism is not liberalism which is not communism. For god's sakes take a politics class. You're one of those people who spout off how anyone who disagrees with spend-all, consume-all, destroy-all policies are anti-American, aren't you?

    Socialism is the presence of certain social policies, not the absence of Americans. And yes, I say Americans. Because while the opposite of socialism is capitalism, America is not the only capitalist country. America has no claim as the sole democracy nor the best one. So socialism has nothing to do with America or Americans even in opposition.
     
  6. Namyeknom

    Namyeknom IncGamers Member

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    Personally I would say opposition to govenments and offical policy is a requirement of a democracy (after all it is a bit difficult to have more than one party if opposing those in power makes you an Anti-Nationalist). However I think the boundary can be crossed on this front, if it becomes opposition regardless of the govenment/policy in question.

    As to hostility (assuming this means your willing to make physical attacks), that I believe does cross the line, whether this makes you anti-whatever or just a fruitcake I'm not sure. I think anyone who is opposed or hostile to the American people as a whole, is without doubt an anti-Amercian.

    Whether a country being anti-American, automatically means America is anti- them, is debatable. Certainly the chain of connections between 'their anti us, so they must be anti our friends as well' is a difficult one. After all I believe America went down that road with Saddam when fighting Iran, and that didn't turn out too well. (Please this isn't a call for an argument on the war, I was just using it as an example, I have no idea what side of the political spectrum I may offend with that comment, and was not trying to make a point about current events...)

    It seems to be one of these buzz words thats thrown around in an attempt to undermine opponents, rather then come up with anything of any value. And because of this, it probably means less and less everytime its used...
     
  7. publius

    publius IncGamers Member

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    You could take the exactly opposite tack and use the equally impartial definition: "neo-conservative buzzword used for Republican party rhetoric for purposes of intimidation and mudslinging. Generally a cheap attempt at demagoguery by political pundits whose arguments are incapable of standing up to serious scrutiny."

    Who should I believe?
     
  8. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    I would venture to say that most of the insurgents in Iraq could be classified as anti-American. :eek:
     
  9. Carnage-DVS

    Carnage-DVS IncGamers Member

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    Gogo constructive post by Freemason.

    I would define it as something or someone that is opposed to the culture and set of values that America has.
     
  10. DrunkPotHead

    DrunkPotHead IncGamers Member

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    And how would you define american culture and american values? Would you include the values and culture of the flag-burning american? The criminals?
     
  11. Carnage-DVS

    Carnage-DVS IncGamers Member

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    The current set of values America seems to be portraying nowdays either through it's media, it's politics and/or it's entertainment industry. One example of what people might view as American culture would be scantily clad pop singers, famous celebrities being brought up on pedophilia charges, etc etc.

    All of this would form an idea of American culture to outside societies. It would also include giagantic corporations seemingly taking over such as Mcdonalds etc.

    I don't know how exactly to convey my thoughts. Just think of it as a general picture of people not liking Western influences changing their societies.
     
  12. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Who is the face of the modern liberal? moveon.org, ANSWER, Howard Dean, Newsweek, etc. Every one of them have shown themselves to be against what America has stood for from the beginning.

    moveon.org - rabidly anti-free speach. They have done their best to silence conservative speakers at every opportunity.

    ANSWER - the remenants of the communists. A substantial sponsor of the Democrats. The voice of communism today. And a producer of countless anti-american publications.

    Howard Dean - anti rule-of-law. Demanding that Tom Lay go to jail when he hasn't even been charged with anything. I take that back, he's not a commie pinko. He's showing extreme fascist tendencies. I fully support his leadership of the Democrat Party.

    Newsweek - deliberatly lying in order to incite hatered against America and increase the danger to our troops abroad.

    It's pointless to go on considering that no matter what I say the leftists here will make accusations that I know nothing abotu politics, socialism, communism, etc. Never once remembering their political leanings are LOSING in this country. Damn I love the conservative revolution. :clap:
     
  13. piff

    piff IncGamers Member

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    There's two ways I see it. The way I use it and the way I beleive it.
    1. The way I beleive it. Anti-Americanism is the act of beign a hippy or a communist or anything that is against democracy and capitalism. To define hippy, I use the idea that a hippy is anyone who is against most governmental actions, regardless of the nature. The only ones a hippy is for are ones that give the hippy more and more freedoms regardless of the affect it will have on the country.

    2. The way I use it. I understand that patriotism is a very strong feeling nowadays, so to help me persuade I push the "Americanism factor." What I mean by this is if someone is arguing/debating me and they are choosing something that is not what one would broadly consider American, I claim the opponent's ideas are Anti-American. I understand the easy retort to this, but no one has sent it at me, so I'm still doing great. I have claimed ideas such as disliking hockey is Anti-American in the past to get a point across successfully. Basically, if something is against current US policy, I can find a way to make it Anti-American.
     
  14. axeil

    axeil IncGamers Member

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    People who oppose the ideals of the American Revolution and/or American Federal Republican Government. So those against free speech, self-determination, freedom of religion, right to bear arms, trial by jury, fair and just punishment, seperation of powers, free elections with a secret ballot, etc, etc.

    "But axeil, not every nation thats allied with us and is our friend follows all of those things. Isreal is a Jewish state and isn't exactly friendly towards Islam. the U.K. doesn't have guns for its citizens. Even the American Government has been opposed to some of those things at one time or another. Up until the 1800s there were property requirements for voting, and women weren't even able to vote until the early 1900s."

    Well then they're liberal socialist commies who hate America.

    (at this point all your sarcasm detectors should be going wild)

    EDIT: So Smeg I guess Fox News is anti-American for interupting their "guests" who don't have the same view as them, cutting their mics and other such things. We should throw them in with all their terrorist brethren. Why do you hate America Smeg?
     
  15. Carnage-DVS

    Carnage-DVS IncGamers Member

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    I love being a muslim fanatic commie liberal pinko terrorist!
     
  16. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    SZ, the term, 'antiamerican', just like 'neocon', 'liberal elite', and all the other buzzwords of the AM radio crowd have lost their meaning simply because each person uses them in different ways A textbook definition is useless. A more extreme example would be the words, 'liberal' and 'conservative'. Depending on who you're talking to, one is a curse and the other is a sign of utmost respect.

    It's pretty funny if you get a little cognitive dissonance going. It's even funnier when you consider how using the words can get someone's panties totally in a wad.

    In short, there isn't any good answer. When used, these terms are in the eye of the beholder and they're almost never used in a positive sense. See the example below



    Well, only because you consistently solidify those beliefs with every political post of yours. I might add that it's not just leftists who feel this way. But those liberals seem to be your Moby Dick.

    (Other readers will notice that I'm using 'liberal' and 'leftist' as a pejorative term because the addressee only understands the word as such)


    I'm kinda upset about the loss of fiscal responsibility and increased bureaucracy in the current administration too. Maybe in 2008 we can elect some real Republicans.
     
  17. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

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    Several fascist jack-booted pigs around here have called me an anti-American Pinko Liberal Commie :D
     
  18. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    We need Conservatives more than we need Republicans.

    I wear cowboy boots. Get your footwear right you hippie! :p
     
  19. Steve_Kow

    Steve_Kow Banned

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    Anti-Americanism is the disliking of disagreeing with something just because its American.

    Ford and GM make crappy cars because they're American.
    Boeing makes a terrible jet because its American.
    Such and such political policy is bad because its American.
    American people are inherently stupider than other people.
    et.c
     
  20. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    I agree with Steve's defintion. People have contorted anti-Americanism to mean anyone who doesn't agree with them, though. So I just avoid the phrase completely because everyone understands it differently.
     

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