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What did I do wrong???lvl59 Nec and lvl24 druid died! ifra

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by wanshu, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. wanshu

    wanshu IncGamers Member

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    What the f*** did I do wrong???lvl59 Nec and lvl24 druid died!

    hi all,

    My skellimancer...lvl 59 died...in NM Arcane

    I maxed skellys, mastery at 19, got 6 in CE, 3 in decripify.

    I put enuff str for my gear...rest in vitality...here is my question, DOES A SKELLIMANCER NEED MAX BLOCK??? I know it sounds stupid with all the skellys I have but I died because of a 1 second lag and my skellys did not "appear" in front of me in time...thought I might have survived if I have max block...should i have gotten max block?? coz with those zombie heads and chance to block is really low and thats a hell lot of points to put in dex to get max block...pls dun advise me about getting specific gears...the best item i ever found is a rockfleace armor...what merc should I have gotten? I died with a defiance act2 merc

    I tried a pure wind druid, as suggested by one of the druid guides, but seems he is very weak till tornado. Is a pure wind druid viable in HC? I aim to max tornado, hurricane and cyclone armor, and some points in solar creeper...dun think I will get any summons...is that ok? what merc goes well with a wind druid? I am probably gonna use it for MF.

    THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!
     
  2. doubleOObubble

    doubleOObubble IncGamers Member

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    There is no "best" answer, but most people will tell you to get high vitality and pump Bone-armor for survival of your necro, and to forget about block. Some will advocate it strongly though, but they are in minority. Also, the generic answer for your summoner's merc choice would be "Prayer" (combat in normal/hell) until you get "Might" (offencive in NM).

    Remember the skeletons are formidable tanks, but only if they are in front of you, so whenever they are in risk of getting stuck and such, slow down and retreat. It's hard to kill a necro with high Bone-armor too - how much did you have yours at when you died?

    Good luck rebuilding!
     
  3. The_President

    The_President IncGamers Member

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    Hi....

    Im kinnda new too this forum...
    but i have a skellymancer lvl 85... He has done well all the way to hell :) Just be carefull with ur necro at places like arcane an maggot lair. those are the worst places to go with ur necro.

    I also have a Wind Druid lvl 86, but i kinnda get the impression he doesn't work so well without some good gear in hell. so i would still go with the necro, just be sure too keep ur bone armor high and pump a lot of points in vit :)


    The_President
     
  4. wanshu

    wanshu IncGamers Member

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    hi,

    Thanks for the advice guys. However, some questions

    1) Shld I max Bone armor? it seems like impossible.

    20 skelly
    20 mastery
    20 CE
    10 decriplify

    that is like lvl 70, and i dun have very good gear that I can go to hell confidently. So far i have been putting points in str and vit for my new nec.

    2) President: Wats your druid build from low level to hurricane?
    I cant seem to kill **** with artic blast, synergised by cyclone. and I think putting points in summons to lead to grizzly is a waste. how many points did you have in solar creeps?
     
  5. probo24

    probo24 IncGamers Member

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    What do 10 dead 1.1 necros (lvl 61-87) have in common? Base Dex
    Not to say that my 85 and 75 wont bite it, but the 75 with 75% block and the 85 mfer with 45% sure help with those lag spikes, or times im not paying attention and run into a nasty pack.
    I found a few in energy (40ish) is all I usually need, and built my necros in the past the str for gear, base dex, vit-everything else way.
    For my play style, i've found blocking to be a life saver on more than one occasion, and we all know it only takes one occasion.
    The other tip i've made myself follow, in the open maps ill run, but any cave I mf or quest in I better be walking or im tempting fate, and im not ready for my deeds to be remembered (just yet)
     
  6. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    I regreted my 130 points in dex on my (living) Guardian Necro..because I use a rarae shrunken head for +skills and it has such a low block, that even all those points do not get it above 43%. I would max block, only if I knew I had a Trang Ouls head or Homunculus available.

    Other problems I can see with your build. 20 CE seems too much..and where are the curses? Dim Vision, Attract and Confuse can definitely save you. No battle with decrep up front.

    20 SM, 20 RS, 5 summon resists, 5 in GM, 1 in CG, +skills to take care of getting it all to a good level. 1 in EACH curse, 5 in DV. With 5-10 in CE you should already be fine (does not scale with more ppl in game). 1 BA, 10+ in BW or BP..and you have pretty much spend all your points.
     
  7. Dangerous Old Man

    Dangerous Old Man IncGamers Member

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    OK, and now for a third variant of the max block / vitality debate. My level 90 necro opted for a compromise. Enough dex for 50% chance to block and the rest in vitality. Sure, I get hit more frequently than the max block necro, but less frequently than the pure vitality necro. He's still killing and hasn't had a NDE for quite some time (knock on wood.) So this works for me.

    I don't play with Druids, so can't help you with question #2.

    Good luck with the rebuilding.

    Have to
    Always
    Rebuild
    Dumb
    Characters
    Or
    Retire them
    Eventually
     
  8. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    We had a Wind Druid in KTA 1.0 and he rocked, even untwinked. When KTA 2.0 was killed off at Hell Canyon of Magi WP, and the remaining members died in antempt to loot, it was the Wind Druid who actually came in and managed to kill of the 4 Boss Packs that were the demise of the other 7 players. He is definitely viable, killed in duels and seemed an overall balanced character. (Just don't forget OAK..you did not mention it)

    Guess for MF people usually go the Orb-sorc way however.
     
  9. Spero

    Spero IncGamers Member

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    I'm one of the max block guys. I think that max block >>>> + skills. However, my necro did die. :lol: I met might and champ archers in the pit in Hell and kept trying to clear them (one too many times, should have given up). If I had a great blocking head, I would use it. My necro used twitchthroe and a bone shield of deflecting purchased from Drognan in Act 2. Two p diamonds in the shield helps resists a lot. The 50% block the Old Man recommended isn't a bad idea either IMO. Much better than base dex.

    You don't get a lot of hit points (2) for each point in vitality. So max block is a better deal on a necro than many other characters. Also, keep bone armor up and recast whenever you get hit.

    Soft core builds aren't going to be ideal for hard core. If anything, look at the soft core pvp builds for some ideas. Det's skill allocation looks good to me. Also, purchase a teleport staff in Act 3 once you get there (or just buy one with another character). Put it on your switch, it should help quite a bit for areas where your minions get stuck. When you tele, all your minions will be right there with you.

    I have never played a druid, so I don't have any advice there.

    Good luck!
     
  10. Leper

    Leper IncGamers Member

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    I think mainly you just have to be careful (slow) when playing a summoner. I had one at lvl 26 that was rocking in act4 normal, then in the choas sancturay, near the start of it where there is narrow areas I was over confident and ran ahead of my Skellies and straight into a big pack of monsters where I quickly died. If I had been walking then I'm sure that wouldn't have happened.

    My first summoner was lvl 70ish and he was no dex style. He died when I bumped into 3 packs of boss archers in act1 hell. My skellies went down quick because of the very nasty mods, one boss having might and others being cold and lightening enhanced. And since I had low defense and no block it wasn't too hard for them to hit me so I saw my deeds pretty quickly, before I knew what was happening really. I only realised there was 3 boss packs after I was looking at the death screen. But the thing was that even though I had pumped almost everything in to vita I still didn't have incredible life, about 900 maybe and I think that in that situation I might have done better if I had 75% block.

    But having said all that, in my opinion items is the all important factor about whether you go max vita or max block. Max block isn't so much of a strain on the dex if you have like a high block shield (homonoculus) and items such as raven frost and TGods for the huge dex bonuses. Also good items like Harleqin Crest can add like 100hp maybe (can't remember for sure, know it's level dependant) but that equates to 50 vita points for a necro, which is a heck of a lot.

    Love From Leper!

    Edit: Oh yea, I'd recommend an act2 nm might merc when you get to that stage. Also I would not recommend so many point in CE, maybe 5-10 like others said.
     
  11. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Any points invested in Decrep after 1 is a wasted point! Yes that curse has a very short duration and it would be nice to have it last longer but those points are irriplaceable so cast more often. In some cases I literally just cast decrep constantly until I get a corpse.

    20 point CE is simply a cowing build and a waste of at least 15 points for 95% of the areas and situations in the game. 1-5 points invested with be 5-10 EASY with minimal +skills.

    Never max bone armor as it is a waste of points also. Lvl 1 with synergies is the better way.

    I personally like Bone Spirit maxed so I can kill and all those points in taht boost my armor also.

    1 point revives with give you 5-10 revives to play around with also.

    Max Block,

    WEll, I will not argue that it isnt good as max block is good, but it is also difficult to attain without certain items. I have never had max block on my Necros and never will as I dont see the need. With my Armor absorbing around 400 damage, my tiny block of like 13% and 12 skellies, lvl 1 Fire Golem and Merc I just dont see that high dex being as usefull as more life. Now if you can load up on charms and all for life then by all means go for block but if you dont have those items you are only safe 75% of the time.....when you block!

    Necros unfortunately are always a "bad move" away from death. in a way they are unkillable but at the same time they are so fraile with thier low life so a bit of lag can end it quick.

    I have 3 living Necros I am not afraid to take anywhere, two in Classic one in XPac and all 3 are built like this.

    Max Skelly
    Max Master
    Max Spirit or Spear
    1 all golems, use FG
    1 Revive
    Ce is 1-5 (two have higher but NO points were aded until VERY late after pumping armors synergies)
    1 in all curses (skipped attract, confuse, but have dim)
    All remaining skills went to Bone wall or Prison to synergize my Spirit and/or Spear and Bone Armor.

    This build can go anywhere and kill anything with the poorest of poormans gear!

    I use a Might Merc.........In Norm since Act 2 merc seem to never keep up I usually switch to Act 3 Fire and Barb in Act 5 until I get to Act 2 NM, and I try to get there ASAP to get might. I do normally take the Prayer guy in Act 2 Norm and if he lvls well (meaning slow paced questing game) I may keep him but it seems a good group always out quests a merc that is already 3-5 lvls behind you!


    Wind Druids are still solid builds, they just arent "carnage machines". With big ole life, most everything cold and slowed it is a pretty safe build, but they have areas in Hell they will have trouble with solo and taht is where the Merc comes in and Lower Resist wands, as well as a lvl 1 Bear..........A lvl 1 Bear is probably the best minion in the game by far with only 1 point invested and mainly because you have Oak. i suggest a Might Merc so both Merc and Bear hit with a thump. The other option is a Fire Mage or Lightning, but then you loose a tank......I cant in my mind ever loose a tank especially in HC Hell!!!
     
  12. Pinoy

    Pinoy IncGamers Member

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    My lvl87 necro had max block and he completed hell whithout any problem. (solo). He was my mfer. Nothing stand in his way. He ingnores immunities (with curse that is). I am proud to say he was my best char in hcladder.

    Nightfish?
    110=str base
    180+=dex i was using moser for a bit til humunculus
    150+=something base
    20=sm
    20=rs
    20ce
    10=sr
    1=revive but total 10 with +skills
    1=rm
    1+=attrack
    1=dim vision
    1=weaken
    1=decrep maybe more
    and preq.

    His gear was:
    shako w/ptopaz
    King Leoric
    Humunculus w/pdiamond
    4 soc mageplate with ptopaz
    2x 28% nagel
    37% chance guard
    upgraded goldwrap
    46% war trav
    35% good luck ammy
    and some s mf c
    total mf 400+

    My current lvl83 is a complete remake of him. And I hes completed hell at lvl78 solo. He won't have the same gear tho as my mfer died and he was my 2nd mfer other than the lvl80 sorc (i remade her too) wink. But my necro is the best.

    In act5 specially frigid and on alot of range attackers there and deadly to. Cold/fire. I hate those slingers/skeles.
     
  13. AnubisXy

    AnubisXy IncGamers Member

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    My necro lvl **, can go anywhere in Hell except arcane and maggot lair. Oh and N's temple I avoid too. Anyway, my build.

    Summoning:
    RS:20(30-35 depending on gear)
    SM:20(30-35 depending on gear)
    mages:3 (put a couple points in just to get it to 7 mages after equip)
    revives:1pt
    all golems:1pt
    fire golem:I put in about 6 points, mistake but oh well he's nice for rushing new chars.
    golem mastery:1pt
    summon resist:1pt

    P&B:
    CE:5pts
    bone armor:1pt
    bone wall:1pt
    bone prison:20

    Curses:
    all curses:1pt
    dim vision:10
    lower resist:5

    Attributes:
    Str: enough for equip, about 110
    Dex: Base =/
    Vit: pumped
    Energy:75 (hate buying mana pots, alot of people will think this is a bad idea and if I didn't have a BO baba on a second computer I'd probably stick it in vit instead, or possibly dex =/)

    Equipment:
    arm / ali baba on switch
    homon(pdiamond) / rhyme on switch
    shako (ptopaz)
    smoke armor (hey, it works back off!)
    Tals belt/goldwrap (switch out with trangs sometimes)
    Trangs gloves (best gloves for a necro IMHO)
    Rare Boots FR/LR 30%+ MF24%
    nagel: 30%
    some rare ring with resists
    ammy: teleport ammy with 16% PR / switch out with +3 summoning ammy sometimes, but rarely.

    Sometimes I wear Trangs set, but hate the slow cast bug so I usually only wear it to scare noobs (sorry if I offended anyone by using the word noob).

    Anyway, I can't say if max block will be good for you or not. My philosophy is life > block in HC for a skellymancer since if you're careful your minions take all hits for you. Of course lag etc can change all of that but if you lag next to a group of frenzytaurs max block will NOT save you, but max vit might.
     
  14. wanshu

    wanshu IncGamers Member

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    hi all,

    Something I dun understand. why put 1 point in armor then 20 in bone prison? why not 20 in armor str8 away? (sorry if i sound newbish)

    oso, i always tot decreplify is the "best" skill for summoner, so i guess confuse is good when i meet boss packs? like those f**king moon lords?

    Cheers
     
  15. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    not to pick on anyone, but I want to point out that this Necro WAS and isnt now and I see two reasons from my EXp. No Bone Armor is the #1 and the next potential contrbuter is all the Dex.

    I hae now "was alive" necros and all have base Dex and i can run anything i feel the need to.

    Bone Armor is Life! I have over 1300 life on my 87 Necro and a Bone armor around 400 which means basicaly 1700 Base life with no Bo. He doesnt have good charms for life, I use them on my sorc and Barb and Sin. He does however have Trangs set since lvl 85 but used Umes and Durys and Ward until lvl 84 or so when I found one of the new Unique Heads and went to that.

    i run around wiht 12 Skellies and 9 Revives (1 point invested) with my nice Bone armor and max spirit. Yes the FCR blows but it is fast enuff to kill monsters when they are decreped. Decrep is always my first curse until I know what i am dealing with then i go to Amp unless they are really nasty guys.

    Fire Golem is a supreme ally for a Necro, he attracts everything with his Fire and is recastable from nothing. With +skills he rarely dies.
     
  16. AnubisXy

    AnubisXy IncGamers Member

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    Dim vision + attract is better than confuse, although confuse can be neat DV is better because stray bullets still kill with ranged attackers.

    As far as bone prison or wall instead of armor, well each point in armor only gives 10 hp while the synergy in prison/wall give 15. So it's better to put 1pt in armor and max one or both synergies.
     
  17. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    ok, so i've been lurking around these many necro posts (considering a skellimancer... never made one and I'm getting tired of mf sorcs) and just an observation... while i'm sure many of you have godly godly necros with your shakos, war travs, 4 socket perfect artisan's mage plate of life resurection (every time you get down to 1 hp it rejuvs you and permanently doubles your hitpoints :surprise: ), I'm more impressed by the fact that necros seem to be able to go anywhere and do anything with crap gear... anyone mind bragging about their necro with smoke armour, that rare wand that anya gave you in nm, the shopped heavy belt of the whale etc etc... thanks :D
     
  18. AnubisXy

    AnubisXy IncGamers Member

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    My necro wears smoke armor =/ Other gear is decent though. I *might* upgrade smoke to gloom. Haven't decided, or something else if I can find anything decent. Necros can basically survive naked, but be careful because without great gear it's death on a stick if you're careless.
     
  19. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    At lvl 84 as stated, and after questing the game (for the most part) my gear was like this (from Memory so may be off a tad)

    Durys substitute Smoke ANY DAY its better
    Umes easily replaced by a shopped wand
    3 sock Saph Helm
    Pdaimond Ward like 58 % total
    Frosties
    Rare Belt
    Rare Boots till I found Silks which I since gaev to Bird for His sorc....now uses silks again.
    Rares in Ammy and rings nothing to speak of.

    He had +5 skills total for most his life and at that state he ran anywhere with little worries either.

    My Classic Necros have by far lessor gear and no Merc as Mercs are basically worthless there and cant be used in Act 4 at all. I could convert either one of them today......make the needed resist adjustments as well as Anya quests and take them ANYWEHRE in the game with thier existing epuipment. If i converted one I would probably go to a Smoke and that would cover thier resists after the 3 Anyas.

    Oh ya i would get me and lvl up a Might Merc....slap on whatever i could buy, maybe a Hwains, some Magical Leech Helm and My Necros Current Mage plate or some shopped armor, whatever. Mercs dont die much when they have 10-18 buddies to fight wiht even if they have crap gear!

    Ill be happy to tell you my lvl 72 Avengers gear......its all based on a 4 Diamond shield and sigs!!!
    My 94 Sin had a Stealth Breast Plate, Ancinets Pledge, Nats boots, 3 Saph Helm, misc jelery one being 14 Enrgy and 27 LR which I still ahve neglected to change and jsut plain +3 trap claw, some rare Sharkskin Belt she gambled tha is pretty nice.

    How about my Team Ugly Pally.........boy talk about ugly and he kicks butt

    There isnt a character, but there are a few builds that require godly crap. I and many others can take what falls along the way and build very good characters. It isnt some godly power I or anyone else has, it is simply using your head and making things work.

    So you need to go to Hell, you are lvl 78 and your resists suck so bad a LE Qual rat scares you and you leech Baals in NM now??? SIMPLE fix! SOOOOOOOOO SIMPLE.

    3 sock Helm or two, fall all the time
    3-4 sock armor......same
    Ral Ort THul.......Tal if you want, or Pruby or Topaz, or Saphs

    Ral 30 FR
    Ort 30 LR
    Thul 30 CR
    Ruby 38 life
    Top 24 MF
    Saph 38 mana? is that right?

    What is wrong with these two items?

    Helm......30 LR 30 FR 38 Mana
    Armor ....30 LR 30 FR 30 CR 38 Life

    60 LR 60 FR 30 CR 38 Life 38 mana for two cheap items and cheap gems and cheap runes, this can go on any character at any time and they can succeed.

    Hey, step it up one notch lets say you find an Ancients Artisains or (low life mod) basically untradeable since its 3 socs and say maybe 30-60 life........your LR blows and you could use say 30 FR?

    2 Orts 60 LR
    1 Rals 30 Fire
    +whatever life.

    OR

    All my reists are good but LR is only 20

    2 Orts and a Pruby..........60 LR and maybe 60-90+ Life out of one piece of equipment.

    Get over yourslef and the need for godly crap and take notice to what this game provides you that you throw away every day. How many of you skip the Barbs quest? If you havent got anythign those 3 runes can make a 30 Priz Armor not including Poison, and we all know poison is manageable even with - in it in most cases.

    i love it when these Super Duper Nooblers and these "I am god I have godly" Nubs laugh at my gear and I......yes I lead the way killing whiel they leech with thier stupid godly gear.

    Ghetto Rules and the great players of this game know how to OWN it with NOTHING but what you all call JUNK!
     
  20. Corndog

    Corndog IncGamers Member

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    Wind Druid Build

    Hurricane: 20
    Tornado: 20
    Twister: the rest eventually 20
    Oak Sage: 20
    Cyclone Armor: 20
    Arctic Blast: 1

    Level 2-5: Save skill points (save den skill point also) (extra 5 skills)
    Level 6: 1 in Oak and 1 in Arctic Blast (4 extra now)
    Level 7-11: Oak Sage
    Level 12: 1 in Oak, 1 in Cyclone armor (save Radament skill point 3skills extra)
    Level 13-17: Dont spend Skills these levels (8 extra now)
    Level 18: 1 in Twister
    Level 19-23: Dont spend these Skills (use one Izual points in Oak save the other) 14 extra points now
    Level 24-29: 1 Point in Tornado
    Level 30-43: 1 point each in Hurricane and Tornado (at level 43 Tornado should be max with no extra skill points left.
    Level 44-49: 1 Point in Hurricane (hurricane now maxed)

    After that max in this order

    Oak Sage
    Cyclone Armor
    Twister

    Str: Enough for equipment.
    Dex: Enought for Max block with the shield you choose (you are gonna have to self tank with this build and max block is a must)
    Energy: Base (you can buy all the mana pots you need)
    Vitality: The Rest

    Armor: I perfer Shaft for this build for the physical damage reduction
    Helm: Jalals is nice, if not any +skill circlet or Druid helm with some resist would work.
    Weapon: I like earthshaker for this build, should be relativily cheap.
    Shield: upgraded Mosers with 2 Pdiamond for resist. Any nice block and resist shield will do though.
    Boots: Water Walks or Sandstorm Trek
    Gloves: Frostburn gauntlets
    Belt: Glooms Trap or Verdungoes (I perfer Verdungoes for the Physical Damage reduce)
    Rings: Ravenfrost and Dwarf Star.
    Ammy: Skills ammy with resistances

    Shoot for max resist with max block. 50% damage reduce is nice if attainable. This build can self tank just about anything.
     

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