What character is best for lopsided battles?

luis19

Diabloii.Net Member
on east im:
dirtydozen131
barb is BoBxSaGet

i was pretty well known, back when i used to play alot and sub in for clan duels. but now i dont play much. i saw this mak0 in a pub private game aka casterpk. pretty funny kid, kept me entertained for a good hour going back and forth calling each other noobs.

he did pretty good dmg cept he didnt kill me at all, maybe he could have but too many ppl jumped the duels. on the other hand i was able to kill him.
1on1 we'd prolly go around 5050 since i dont have the gear to negate his foh at all.
anyways, i guess hes only good v/t vs v/t cause the other casters raped him. all of them werent good either, cept 1 hammerdin who was one of the best on east.
 

morotsjos

Banned
mrJ said:
I see that you're on euro? If you actually have a windy, please duel morotsjos.
Since he's on ladder we'll duel on tcp/ip if he wants to.

Paulsummoner said:
What I have spotted about you, morotsjos, is that you are barb fan, you always (no matter what the question is) say that barb has no weaknesses or that WW is the best skill in the game, I mean no offense, but I just noticed that a lot of times.
I will continue doing that until someone proves me wrong.
Dont consider ww the best skill in the game though, my vote goes for mind blast and energy shield ^^

Phyrexial said:
That's because a well played barb doesn't have any builds that completely nullify it like a Windy vs a Trapper. It can be beaten, it just cannot be completely hosed by a build alone. Also, WW is the strongest melee skill in the game hands down if used correctly. Granted Moro is abit more zealous about it, but he is not lying to you.
Exactly, finally you've seen my point =)
When I lose it's because of my own lack in ability (and vs foh - gear), not because of limitations of the wwbarb-class.
Actually I'm usually quite objective but it's tiresome to hear people say that conc/zerk/smite/whatever>>>>>>>>>>>>ww over and over. Hence it might sound that I'm exaggerating, but thats not my intention.
 

Generator Of Chaos

Diabloii.Net Member
morotsjos: (no need to quote the gigantic post)

I agree that WW is the best melee skill in the game, since if the user whirls right, he can deal massive dmg without even beeing hit..
However, WW IS NOT the only attack whose dmg cannot be totally negated or easily avoided.
For once, Blessed Hammers, Bone Spirit, Bone Spear, Guided Arrow...
 

morotsjos

Banned
Generator Of Chaos said:
morotsjos: (no need to quote the gigantic post)

I agree that WW is the best melee skill in the game, since if the user whirls right, he can deal massive dmg without even beeing hit..
However, WW IS NOT the only attack whose dmg cannot be totally negated or easily avoided.
For once, Blessed Hammers, Bone Spirit, Bone Spear, Guided Arrow...
Yes, but ww is a far better skill than any of these. 4 fpa mean anything to you?

Actually all the skills you mentioned above can be avoided quite easily...

Anyway, whats the point of discussing if ww is a "good skill" compared to others? It's COMPLETELY irrelevant.
Wwbarbs are THE most overpowered class in the game period. Prove me wrong or agree, I could care more.
I do however care about ignorant/evil people giving others false information ^^


Dirty Scorpion:
Told you =)
Thanks for nice duels.
 

dkay

Diabloii.Net Member
spirits = too slow
spears = easily avoidable if defensive
hammers = defensive skill, takes effort to make it offensive
ga = avoidable with tele.

whirlwind = desyncing, 4 fpaing, always keeping you in stun/block/fhr animation when kept short.

of course i never had a wwbarb for myself. but this is coming from an experienced hammerdin... ive never been tormented over and over again by any class like how blobs did. i was thinking that wwbarbs would be easy until he pulled all his tricks on me. :(
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
Generator Of Chaos said:
However, WW IS NOT the only attack whose dmg cannot be totally negated or easily avoided.
For once, Blessed Hammers, Bone Spirit, Bone Spear, Guided Arrow...
When I said the WW barb cannot be negated/hosed by a build, I was talking about the WW barb as a class/build and not the skill alone. WW is a great skill, don't get me wrong, but it is practically negatable alone. The other strengths of the WW barb are what make WW so powerful. For example:

Hammers: Highest unresistable, unegatable damage in the game for all intents and purposes. However, it is harder to aim than most. It's main flaw is that it must generally be very close to it's target to hit. This is a flaw that results in the Hammerdin (or most anyway) being hosed by Windies that abuse minion stacking. The hammerdin must come into close range with the Windy to exchange blows but the minion stacking lets the Windy outtank the Hammerdin. Thus, this matchup is balanced much more towards the Windy. This is a limitation of the build.

Spirit: Pretty high damage, homing, and can become invisible. Deadly when used right and can be used to set traps essentially. Long distance warfare is generally a losing one against IBS. However, because it is slow and the damage is not terribly high ES sorcs can lower it to very manageable levels and then beat the necro at the rest of his game by being faster and hitting harder. Also, Spirit is suspectible generally to Slow Missiles. I personally find Slow Missiles to not be much of a problem, it actually helps sometimes, but in some cases and for alot of players it is a big problem. Again, a limitation of the build.

Spear: Suffers from the same problems as Spirit, only it is slightly faster.

Guided: It can be blocked and have it's damage cut in half by DR. However, I don't feel these are even the worst of Guided's shortcomings. I believe the main weakness of Guided is that it requires a two handed weapon to be used. Combined with the zon's inherent bad tele frames, this becomes a major weakness. Lack of res from a shield or second weapon like a barb or sin, no blocking, and the only thing a zon can do to avoid attacks is run and hope it's passives save it. Can you imagine what zons would be like if they could either teleport with the Barb/sorc fcr breakpoints or if bows could somehow be used 1 handed with a shield? I think zons would become far stronger. However, these are limitations of the class. They will have low res generally and they inherently lack block while attacking and lack the mobility to escape certain death.

WW: Alone, it is certainly manageable. Minion stacking hoses it, especially PI Revives. Also, as a melee attack it faces the same limitations as most melee attacks: range. However, the barb has strengths to cover those weaknesses. To counter the range problem, some moron over at Blizz had the bright idea to give Barbs the same fcr breakpoints as sorcs, the best in the game. Then to counter minion stacking, they have a knockback skill that has a full screen or more radius. DR and blocking can only save you for so long because unlike Guided, WW hits alot faster and results in a stunlock of sorts and hits harder. To top off those, Barbs have more life and more inherent res (nat res) than any other class without any sacrifices to offset them. So when you think about it, there is no direct counter to a WW barb other than simply outclassing the skill of the player on some form of ranged build most likely. Most agree the Bone necro is the answer, but it still isn't a hard counter like Trapper vs Windy where there is an inherent advantage to exploit.
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
morotsjos said:
Exactly, finally you've seen my point =)
Don't get giddy yet, I've always held that WW barbs are the most well rounded and versatile classes, we just disagreed on 2 other points that I still haven't changed my mind on:

1) Who is the better caster killer? Ghost sin or BvC barb.
2) Who would come out ontop given equal skill and gear in a Bone necro vs BvC duel?

I still think the Ghost is the better caster killer and I am still planning on bugging mcm for a rematch as soon as I get a stable connection. ;) I don't feel like discussing those in this thread as we have already argued those to death in other threads. Many other threads rather. We do see eye to eye on your main points though apparently.
 

morotsjos

Banned
Phyrexial said:
Don't get giddy yet, I've always held that WW barbs are the most well rounded and versatile classes, we just disagreed on 2 other points that I still haven't changed my mind on:

1) Who is the better caster killer? Ghost sin or BvC barb.
2) Who would come out ontop given equal skill and gear in a Bone necro vs BvC duel?

I still think the Ghost is the better caster killer and I am still planning on bugging mcm for a rematch as soon as I get a stable connection. ;) I don't feel like discussing those in this thread as we have already argued those to death in other threads. Many other threads rather. We do see eye to eye on your main points though apparently.
HA-HA, now you're confusing me with someone else. I have never posted anything related to bvc vs ghost, in fact I have said nothing about wwsins other than that venom can be easily negated.
1) As for who's the better casterkiller; I dont know. I will find out though since I'm making a ghost right now =)
HOWEVER, I've ALREADY noticed that without 15/70:s wwsins are crippled and have to make sacrifices in gear. Barbs are more versatile and easier to play. They also have an easier time changing gear for specific duels.
2) Depends more on lag/luck than any other duel. Personally I think it's quite even, if not leaning slightly towards nec. Better barbs (i.e. mcm) think otherwise.

And no, I'm not discussing this, I think you'll agree with me though.

Btw, giddy = what?
 

Phyrexial

Diabloii.Net Member
I must be confusing your arguments with Chris, my apologies. I most likely have agreed with your points then and I'm too lazy to look up what I have disagreed on with you in the past.

morotsjos said:
Btw, giddy = what?
Overly happy, prone to giggling, excited.
 

morotsjos

Banned
Phyrexial said:
I must be confusing your arguments with Chris, my apologies. I most likely have agreed with your points then and I'm too lazy to look up what I have disagreed on with you in the past.
Probably.
As I remember it you only got annoyed when I claimed that barbs were supreme. I have already stated the reason why so I figure we have no real disagreement. Yet... (just wait until I get my ghost going and we'll see^^).
 
Top