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What about "Famine" rune-word for WW Barb?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Bash, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. Bash

    Bash IncGamers Member

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    What about "Famine" rune-word for WW Barb?

    Excuse me for quite noob question.

    I've heard a lot of stuff like:
    1. Damage is the King of DII world.
    2. "Magic damage is King of damage".
    3. If you are WW Barb - you MUST reach 2nd breakpoint by any means.
    4. If you are reaching 2nd breakpoint - all other IAS raising is pointless.

    I've got an impression - for Strenght point saving and a lot of other things you must use Weapon which would reach this covetous thing and don't sweat anymore. (In other words - some rather posh rune-words like "BotD" which yield 60 IAS raising is - "your own breath wasting" ;) - if you need get less IAS for meeting 2nd breakpoint requirement.

    Then I found out quite interesting thing - rune-word of "Famine" for War Spike makes all necessary things done.
    More then that - you start to make Magic Damage to anyone (and a lot of Elemental Damage to anyone as well - then Oblivion Knights can go to Hell with their Iron Maiden stuff - as it seems) and whole world around can't resist this form of offence.
    Sum damage from this thing is bigger then "BotD" stuff can yield and Magic/Light/Fire/Cold portions of it is more nasty then Poison dmg from BotD.
    Yep, this thing has huge handicap of two sorts:
    1. WW Barb with "Famine" War Spike start to be quite Mana-hungry and this thing can be quite desperate.
    2. War Spike is the Axe. It means you need to raise your Axe Mastery, but...
    You've got quite magnificent Axe stuff in "low-end" of D2 market and fantastic thing in "Hi-Fi" department, but you need to find some "filling the middle gap" ideas - quite hard.
    "Famine" starts to work from 65 lvl and it is quite bad news for situation just below this magic number.

    Ehm...
    I've tried to find any ideas about this thing in this Forum and failed.
    It means - there is some form of "catch" in this thing or I start to wonder.

    Pls, advise - what is wrong in my way of thinking?
    What is reason for absense of any "Famine" mentioning in any WW Barb guides at all? Is this thing - "faulty" in some valid area, or it' usage is some sort of "secret teching" for WW Barbs in D2 Realms??

    Bash
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    There's nothing wrong with Famine..It's fast, got nice damage, Ignores Target Defence and huge elemental damage. Why most Barbarians like other weapons is the absence of crushing blow, and that for example Breath Of The Dying can get ridiculous amounts of physical damage, which can then be further enhanced by skills and deadly strike. Famine is probably better suited for an Avenger paladin using conviction.

    1. You can get mana leech a lot of places...Soul Drainers, Wilhelm's Pride, Manald Heal:)...
    2. I think there are some nice exceptional unique axes that you can use...Butcher's Pupil is a very sweet axe indeed and is available lvl 39 not too bad, and if you shael it, it should reach the last breakpoint...I think.

    Again Famine is not a bad weapon...it's just that there are many much better options out there. Most barbarians, and other melee builds tend to focus on getting as much physical damage as possible (with Deadly Strike and Crushing Blow) and for this Famine isn't so good...It is however a nice weapon for dealing with Physical Immunes, but not really all that much better than the lowly Baranar's Star. Also Famine only has 30% IAS so to reach the last breakpoint you need to socket it in a fast base speed weapon (such as War Spikes), this is bad because those weapons usually have lower damage than their slower counterparts.
     
  3. Bash

    Bash IncGamers Member

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    Aren't absolute majority of "Melee Builds" - almost Physical Immunes? (Lot of Resistance plus socketed SS plus something else ;), huh?
    Isn't nice idea to meet some max-Iron Skin'ned guy with nice Stormshield and show him his mistakes with "lowly" War Spike which used to make 180-200 Magic Damage per hit (and according to D2 rules - you haven't any form of Magic Resistance around ;) ?
    By the way - I've got an impression - Baranar Star doesn't have Magic Damage at all - then its damage is pure Elemental and you can have all sort of Elemental Resistance in your garb, stash and coffer.
    In other words - only (non-realms) equivalent of "Famine" War Spike is Hammerdin way of Magical damage dealing and it seems Barb can't take Hammerdin path of development - at all ;).

    Thank you for your response anyway. I've heard some really interesting chores inside it. By the way, please, enlighten me - are "Melee Builds" - "Magic Damage Immune" in any extent? (I've mean - not "Elemenal Damage Immune" - I've mean - "Magical Damage Immune".)

    Sincerely yours, Bash
     
  4. Inuyasha

    Inuyasha IncGamers Member

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    ... The maximum physical damage reduction that you can reach is 50%. That's nowhere near immune.

    That is pathetic. Maybe you don't know one of the simplest and most important facts about PvP: All damage except for Open Wounds is reduced to 1/6. That means barely a scrape on anybody from 200 damage.

    Not to mention that most melee builds reach upwards of 4k physical damage (I'm being generous to you here, and assuming that they aren't using really killer setups). Naturally, that is far more impressive, even after damage reduction and PvP penalties, than your 200.

    To that amount of magical damage? Yes, you will probably be able to hit them for nearly forever, given the basic life regeneration rate is only slightly less than the damage they would be taking from your magic.

    Once again, complete male cow leavings. There are also bone necros, who can do sometimes 30K damage, and hammerdins who do... sickening amounts. The key to their magic damage isn't that it's unresistable: its that its HIGH.

    Famine is an interesting choice, don't get me wrong. But you really don't make many good points for it, especially your emphasis on it's magic damage.
    -Daman(tm)
     
  5. Bash

    Bash IncGamers Member

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    I've got some quite funny objections on my topic.
    Excuse me for making some simple math for my case backing.

    Berserker Axe (Basic stats)
    Min-Max dmg 24-71
    WS 0

    War Spike Axe (Basic stats)
    Min-Max dmg 30-48
    WS -10

    Whirlwind 20
    +102% Dmg
    Axe Mastery 20
    +123% Dmg

    Breath of the Dying
    Vex-Hel-El-Eld-Zod-Eth

    50% to cast Poison Nova if Monster is killed
    Indestructible
    60 IAS
    350-400% Enh Dmg
    200% Dmg to Undead
    -25% Target Defence
    +50 AR
    +50 AR vs Undead
    7% Mana stolen per Hit
    12-15% Life stolen per hit
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +30 to All Attrib
    +1 to Light Radius
    -20% Requirements

    Famine
    Fal-Ohm-Ort-Jah

    30 IAS
    320-370% Enh Dmg
    Ignore Target Defence
    Add 180-200 Magic Damage
    Add 50-200 Fire Damage
    Add 51-250 Light Damage
    Add 50-200 Cold Damage
    12% Life stolen per Hit
    Prevent Monster Heal
    + 10 Str

    Let's sum up (I'm not sure what is the correct stack for applying
    resulting Damage - then I will do it in most favorable for Zerk Axe BotD method.
    If you would like to make any other variant Famine War Spike would look a bit better.
    Let's start.

    First of all weapon itself:
    1) Breath of Dying Berserker Axe:
    A) Enhanced physical damage
    24-71 -> (24+350% - 71+400%) - 108-355

    2) Famine War Spike:
    A) Enhanced Physical Damage
    30-48 -> (30+320% - 48+370%) - 126-225
    B) Adding Magical Damage
    126-225 -> (126+180 - 225+200) - 306-425
    C) Adding Fire Damage
    306-425 -> (306+50 - 425+200) - 365-625
    D) Adding Light Damage
    365-535 -> (365+51 - 625+250) - 416-875
    E) Adding Cold Damage
    416-825 -> (416+50 - 875+200) - 465-1075

    It means - if you would create Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe and Famine War Spike and gave them to some no Barbarian char "raw damages" of both thing would be presentet in your char window - like that:
    Breath of Dying Berserker Axe - 108-355
    Famine War Spike - 465-1075

    Practice is Truth cruterion - then you can see these fantastic (ugly for whole BotD racket) numbers yourself ;'). Please, check them and start to make your objection a bit later after this sightseeing.

    Mind you - it's just "raw numbers", but actual picture a bit better for BotD Zerk Axe thing.
    Reason is - Magic and Elemental damage would be applied after Axe Mastery and Whirlwind
    thing Physical damage calculation. (If I'm wrong - then all BotD thing is utterly trash indeed.)

    Let's divide Physical damage and Magical/Elemental damage in different stacks and apply Magic/Elemental Damage after Physical damage calculation.
    (I'm not sure if it's right idea, but in other way - you can just forget about whole Breath of the Dying thing - forever. I'ld like to be Devil' Advocate for this BotD thing - a bit.)

    1) Axe Mastery (20) application (it goes first due to its Passive nature):

    Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe:
    108-355 -> +123% from Mastery -> 240-791

    Famine War Spike (without Magic/Elemental Damage):
    126-255 -> +123% -> 280-568

    2) Whirlwind (20) application (it goes second, because it isn't Passive)

    Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe with Axe Mastery:
    240-791-> +102% -> 484-1597

    Famine War Spike (without Magic/Elemental Damage) with Axe Mastery:
    280-568-> +102% -> 565-1147

    3) Adding Magical/Elemental Damage to Famine Waqr Spike with Axe Mastery and Whirlwind:
    565-1147-> 565+201 - 1147+850 -> 766-1997

    In other words - you've got next numbers:

    Breath of the Dying Berseker Axe with all paraphernalia:
    484-1597 of resulting Damage
    Famine War Spike with all paraphernalia:
    766-1997 of resulting Damage

    More then that:
    Breath of the Dying is reducing target Defence on 25%
    Famine is IGNORING target Defence.

    Both methods use to prevent Monster Heal then there isn't any difference in this department.

    Yeah, you can use TWO-HANDED weapon for Breath of the Dying rune-word for making more nice damage numbers for BotD cause, but Famine guy can use second hand for Sanctuary Hyperion shield (in case of his defensive approach) or Beast/BotD/Doom/Famine Axe in second hand as well ;) for double rate of his hitting (in case of his offensive mood). Excuse me for pointing - Versality is quite potent weapon as well ;).

    I can't find any trace of Crushing Blow or Open Wound racket in Breath of the Dying rune-word description. Please, point them to me.
    Only harsh weakness in Famine story is Mana% leeching per hit and it would be a big problem - as it seems. (Whirlwind uses to suck in your mana quite hard).

    Please, if you see any objections in these numbers, please point them I would appreciate your advising.

    Sincerely yours, Bash.
     
  6. ChthonVII

    ChthonVII IncGamers Member

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    Not to bash your math or anything, bash, but you forgot to factor in str.

    If we take the arreat summit's word for it, the forumla is:
    Final_Min_Damage = Weapon_Min_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100
    Final_Max_Damage = Weapon_Max_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100

    This should be factored in before mastery and WW.

    If you run the math again giving this barb something like 200 str (just pulled that number out of the air), you will find the BotD doing more damage than the famine.
    (The irony does not escape me that many BotD fans also insist on just enough str to wear gear. I'm not going to try to defend tham in that.)

    Also, a strong case can be made that -25% to target def is better than ITD. ITD only works on normal monsters. It does not work on bosses and other players. When was the last time you had trouble hitting a normal monster with just your plain old AR? ITD works when you don't really need it, but does nothing on the things you actually need help hitting. -25% target def is a weaker effect, but it's there when you need it.

    When 1.10 first came out, I was very excited about famine. If only it were available on faster base types. Chimera is correct, IMO, that just about the only character who can get decent use out of one is a pally.
     
  7. Inuyasha

    Inuyasha IncGamers Member

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    .....

    What the hell?

    Okay, that confirms my suspicions: you have no idea how the mechanics of the game work, therefore skewing your perspective. Your arguments aren't stupidity as I first thought. Simply ignorance.

    For runewords, a random amount of %ED is rolled. The ones listed have that range. Therefore, a BotD would have anywhere between 350%, and 400%, APPLIED TO BOTH MIN AND MAX. A BotD rolled with 376% ED would have THAT SPECIFIC ED, not 350% to the min, and 400% to the max.

    Another thing overlooked, BoTD is almost always made in ethereal weapons, therefore giving it a huge damage boost before modifiers are applied.

    Also, for EboTD, the amount of Str you have will act as ED, giving it yet another boost above famine.

    You're basing your information off of the character screen - That is a fatal mistake, to anybody who knows about the game (yet another thing contributing to your ignorance. NOT STUPIDITY, this is not an insult).

    I, and very, very many, have checked this before. BotD is better, in almost all aspects.

    Only PvM, and even then not against bosses. For PvP, BoTD's bonus is better, because it actually reduces def, rather than doing nothing.

    ....

    Once again, ignorance. Mana leaching does nothing in PvP, and PvM you really shouldnt' have any trouble unless fighting hordes of hell skeletons (which are pathetically weak anyways...)

    Thanks for giving us a reason why BotD is better, with it's +30 to all stats and such. Very nice of you to argue against yourself.

    I'm not going to sort out every mistake that you made, but rest assured, your argument has been made, and dispelled, before. Multiple times. Twice by me, in particular. It may seem good, but put it into actual practice against both monsters, and players, and you'll find out exactly what I mean.
     
  8. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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    I`ll pick one: BOTD can be made in eth weapons (50% to weapon`s base dmg)
     
  9. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    Bash; dont complicate your life, use BOTD.
     
  10. Bash

    Bash IncGamers Member

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    Thank for your answers.
    Let's check in numbers again

    Let's assume Famine War Spike received +370% Enh Dmg
    Some BotD weapon received nasty +400% Enh Dmg

    BotD min damage would be (if xmin-xmax is chosen weapon basic Damage)
    xmin*5*2.02*2.23
    Famine min damage would be (only possible weapon for Famine case is War Spike then its basic damage is constant 30-48)
    30*4.7*2.02*2.23 + 331
    It means - BotD weapon would make more min damage if it more then (30*4.7*2.02*2.23+331)/(5*2.02*2.23)=45.41

    BotD max damage would be (if xmin-xmax is chosen weapon basic Damage)
    xmax*5*2.02*2.23
    Famine max damage would be (only possible weapon for Famine case is War Spike then its basic damage is constant 30-48)
    48*4.7*2.02*2.23 + 850
    It means - BotD weapon would make more min damage if it more then (48*4.7*2.02*2.23+850)/(5*2.02*2.23)=82.86

    It means you need to have some weapon with 46-83 basic 1-hand Damage for BotD would be better then Famine war Spike.

    Ok you are mentioning Ethereal items. It means actual basic damage for item would be 45.41/1.5 - 82.86/1.5
    It means basic damage must be better then 30.27 - 55.24

    Let's check in (only 6-Sock Weapon of course)

    War Spike - 30-48
    Berserker Axe - 24-71
    Phase Blade - 31-35
    Colossus Blade - 25-65

    It means you must choose just among Zerk Axe and Colossus Blade for getting better numbers and min numbers for these thing actually worse then numbers for Famine War Spike.

    Ugh, yep - Ethereal Berserker Axes / Colossus Blades with 6 empty Sockets are plenty around - as it seems from your posts. I've got an impression - you are very RICH guys for making this sort of statements. It seems - usual nifty (not ethereal) War Spike is more common commodities in D2 world.

    Oh, wait a moment - these numbers show just one thing - Famine War Spike is almost equal in Damage department with Breath of the Dying Ethereal Berserker Axe or Breath of the Dying Ethereal Colossus Blade!

    Then let's return to my initial post question.

    I didn't start to prance - Famine thing is better then BotD things in Damage quarter.
    I've just asked - if all other things are equal - I wonder if Magical Damage is better then Physical Damage in (almost) equal weapons - if all other things are equal?

    Let's return to your answers - Inuyasha started to argue - BotD is used to make "a ton of damage" when Famine does "nifty 200" which would healed in one answering hit. Isn't it?
    Please, check in my initial post and compare it with initial Inuyasha answer.

    By the way - I used some common sense when stating:
    When defining "minimal possible damage" I would prefer to use "absolute minimal possible damage enhancement", which means - worst possible BotD/Famine weapon while creating.
    When defining "maximal possible damage" I would prefer to use "absolute maximal possible damage enhancement", which means - best possible BotD/Famine weapon while creating.

    Please, point your finger where is hiding my ignorance in this sort of statement?

    OK. Let's return to my initial question.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________
    Quote:
    What is reason for absense of any "Famine" mentioning in any WW Barb guides at all? Is this thing - "faulty" in some valid area??
    __________________________________________________________________________________________

    Sincerely yours, Bash

    P.S. Thank you for your explanation of difference in ethereal and non-ethereal things in this case. By the way - can you compare realative D2 World prices for Ethereal 6-Socket Berserker Axe/Colossus Blade + Zod rune (just for start of bargain) and usual War Spike + Jah rune.
    I just wonder.

    Take in your notice - Famine War Spike would make almost the same amount of damage (its minimal damage is higher but maximum damage is lower) as BotD Ethereal Berserker Axe/Colossus Blade - in best for BotD weapon scenario.
    I just wonder again ;). Just imagine - you are using your Ethereal 6-Socket Berserker Axe and receive just +350% of Enhanced Damage after socketing. **** happens.

    In comparison with real world - US tank Abrams is quite good thing - hands down.
    But some dirty bearded guy in Falluja surrounding used to wreck it by nifty self-propelled grenade. Oh, it's overestimating as it seems.
    One thousand of dirty bearded guys start to fling into one Abrams one thousand self propelled grenades. All thousand guys is dead as well as one thousand of grenades are spent. But Abrams is blowed as well. One weird question - what side is losing more? (Just compare price of one Abrams - Ethereal 6-Socket Berserker Axe + Zod with one thousand of self-propelled grenades - usual War Spike + Jah while result for some military budget would be same).

    Then, please - explain just one thing for ignorant noob - what is method for getting a lot of Ethereal 6-Socket weapons (Berserek Axe/Colossus Blade only and plenty of Zod runes in D2 world?
     
  11. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    Famine
    FalOhmOrtJah

    vs

    Breath of the Dying
    VexHelElEldZodEth

    runecost is the same, ber= jah and ohm= vex. The only thing that costs more is the eth weapon, which is +- 2 hr. For 2 hr you get a weapon thats easily 3 times more effective.

    HoD
     
  12. Bash

    Bash IncGamers Member

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    Excuse me for asking - what do you mean - 3 times more effective? What department of effectivenes do you mean?
    Damage?
    Mana leeching?
    Poison Nova creation?
    Enemy Defence reduction?
    Your attributes raising?
    Repair prices reduction?

    Is sum of all these things equal to 3 Times of Effectiveness?

    Sincerely yours, Bash

    P.S. I would repeat my initial question - if you start to make statement like:
    BotD is better then Famine because it's more Effective, why I couldn't find any trace of "Famine" mentioning in ANY WW Barb guides on this Forum?

    Check in GMoura WW Barbarian guide.
    Check in EvilerBarbarian PvP WW Barbarian guide.
    Check in Barbarian FAQ. You can't find any mentioning about Famine War Spike thing at all and in none of aforementioned guides you've got any trace of advising to use only Ethereal weapon for BotD thing - exclusively.
    Only place where I found it was xpumafangx mentioning of it in his/her article about all weapons which hit 2nd breakpoint. Period.

    Then we've got quite interesting thing - some thing is existing and a lot of guys made statement "When 1.10 appeared I was very excited about Famine", but there isn't any trace about explanation - why is it faulty weapon? There isn't any trace about this thing in any WW guide (or Barbarian guide) at all!

    Well, you start to make your argument - Famine War Spike is good, but BotD is better. Fine. Why this thing isn't mentioned as "economy variant" of weapon in any WW guide? What reason for mentioning "Doom" Berserker Axe with a lot of "WOOT" in description (in gmoura guide) and total absense of "Famine" mention - mind you - Famine used to make 2-times much more damage then Doom - must I show you numbers?
    I think not - you start to mention only BotD examples - nothing like Doom or Beast and it is quite showy thing ;).

    Then I ask just one simple noob question - if Famine is so bad that it can't be compared with any other Weapon at all? Or we need to make some new mathing?

    And the same question again - is any amount of Magical Damage worse then the same amount of Physical Damage?

    Sincerely yours, Bash

    P.S. Sure thing: Ber is ALMOST equal to Jah.
    What about Zod to Jah price comparison? (I've got an impression a lot of guys like to make their equipment - INDESTRUCTIBLE. Hint: it means Zod is more valued thing for some casters, not only for melee fighters - then according to laws of free market Zod's price must be A BIT higher then Ber or Jah price. Isn't it?
     
  13. Jaimes

    Jaimes IncGamers Member

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    No - obviously because of dupes.

    A Vex is worth the same as a Zod.

    Not many people actually care about cost though, but rather, effectiveness.
     
  14. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    elemental dmg does not got multiplied by skills and str ed. Elemental dmg usually faces 75% resistance compared to 50% max for physical. The only good thing about famine is the magical dmg, which is in itself very nice but does not justify the loss of the +30 atributes, the defense cut, the prevent monster heal (big bonus in pvm), and most importantly the superior ed% and dmg of the base weapon.



    Doom is actually not good at all (imho ofcourse). Beast is good for the big dmg and attack rating boost (for both weapons if dualwielding) and big ow for pvp. The reason Famine isnt mentioned because if you can afford famine you might as well get botd :)

    Actually, zod=jah=ber valuewise on europe NL. Europe L is Ber the most expensive rune I think.

    HoD
     
  15. Inuyasha

    Inuyasha IncGamers Member

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    Okay. Now you're simply becoming arrogant. You're claiming that you know better than every other person in this thread, indeed, anyone who ever made a WW guide, and also the riding majority of other PvPers. Not a bright idea. You try to put up an argument based on your own ideas of how DII is run, when you have no idea. Well, that'll certainly get you far in this community. It's one thing to be ignorant, but willing to learn. It's another to be ignorant, yet closing yourself off from the knowledge that is being offered to you. With that post, you have indeed crossed the line between ignorance, and stupidity.

    Again, an extremely ignorant post. It seems as though you've never even played the game. Since you are unable to put up any further decent argument on the original topic, you decide to bring up the completely unrelated one of cost. Pathetic.

    That is quite possibly the dumbest attempt at misleading readers that I've ever seen. I said that HAMMERDINS DO A TON OF DAMAGE. I said that famine's MAGIC DAMAGE ONLY DOES 200. Geez, no wonder you come across as so pathetically stupid in your posts, you don't know how to read!

    Well, first off: that is not a proper english sentence. Next, you were not comparing weapon to weapon with that bizzare math, you were comparing the ranges of them, which makes no sense whatsoever for practical use of them.

    Very cute, giving us a bizzare reference to something that has no influence on DII or this argument. You really know how to debate, don't you? Seriously, I've had enough of your argument. I've made my points. You've made yours. If my proof and numerous supporters won't change your mind, you're a lost cause anyways.
    -Daman = Da Man
     
  16. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I think you need to stop now...It is clear that you don't really understand fundamental game mechanics...I'm not saying this to be rude, but the people who write guides know a lot about Diablo II and if they don't include Famine, there's probably a very good reason for it...A lot of these reasons have already been mentioned in this very thread.

    It's always difficult to put a numerical value to the different modifiers and compare them and say that one is x times more effective than the other...I will agree with Herald Of Doom that Breath Of the Dying is more effective than Famine...whether it's 3x, 2x or 2,5x more effective...it's difficult to tell.

    Because Famine isn't among the top weapons for WW barbs...or melee characters in general...An avenger being the exception.

    The reason why Famine isn't included as an "economy" variant is that it requires Jah+Ohm which are very high runes. Also Doom is better because it has a Holy Freeze aura that gives excellent crowd control, not because it's damage is way superior to Famine...although your claims that Famine deals twice the amount of damage that Doom does is wrong. They have almost the same physical damage and Doom deals quite a lot of cold damage, so Famine may be slight winner when raw damage is considered but the crowd control makes it better.

    Famine isn't a bad weapon at all...It's just that there are plenty of better alternatives, that aren't even all that more expensive if they aren't cheaper...

    Magical damage is very nice thing to have...because in it's difficult to resist both in PvP and PvM...The downside is that Famine deals 200 magic damage while a Bone necro can easily deal 3000 magic damage. Then there's the 1/6 PvP penalty that someone mentione...which means that your 200 damage is going to be 33 damage=patethic. In PvM monsters have a lot of life and 200 magic damage isn't going to do a lot of difference, especially not when you consider the huge physical damage you can get from BOTH/Grief and others..,Nice against physical immunes but not enough to warrant one using it.

    I'm probably not the right one to talk about Battle-net prices, but it seems that BOTD is readily available for most experienced players...also you can't begin talking about the laws of the free market, when hackers/cheaters continue to flood the realms with illegitimate items...Zod runes should be unbelievably rare, but because they are so useful, a lot of people have duped them, so there are many more than their should be so their price isn't very high.

    Again you seem to have some understanding of the game and your analysis is good it's just based on faulty calculations..I think it's a very good thing that you're reading guides, you should definitely keep that up...and feel free to post more questions, but when several people point out that you are wrong, you should probably listen to them.
     
  17. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    Bash; again, do not complicate your life further. Botd >>>>>>>Famine in each way; END OF STORY
     
  18. Throttle

    Throttle IncGamers Member

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    Did you consider that pretty much every dueler has maxed resists in hell?
     
  19. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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    Example:
    War Spike base dmg: 30-48
    eth BA base dmg: 36-106

    Asuming perfect rolls - 370ed Famine and 400ed Botd:
    War Spike dmg: 141-225 and ~ 330-850 magic/elemental dmg (471-1075 total)
    eth BA dmg: 180-530

    Asuming 500%ed from skills,str,items:
    War Spike dmg: 846-1350 and ~ 330-850 magic/elemental dmg (1276-2200 total)
    eth BA dmg: 1080-3180

    Clearly, even this simplified, BOTD`s dmg output is higher than Famine`s.

    Other facts:
    - BA has range 3 and War Spike range 2.
    - BA has higher base dmg.
    - Famine in BA doesn`t reach the last bp.
    - A good 1h weapon for a barb usualy has this features: range 3, hits the last bp and has the highest phisical dmg possible - why phisical? - check this guide:http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/whirl/ - expecialy Basics/Payload section.
    - Magic damage is "king" becouse is irezistible unlike elemental and phisical which can be rezisted in various ways. However Barb`s only attak dealing magik damage has little application in pvp due to its "delivery" pattern.
    Hmm... better read the whole Basics section.
     
  20. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Bash's problem is that he "forgot" to include ed from skills/gear when comparing botd with famine. Since elemental damage isn't boosted by ed famine is pathetic in comparision.

    Famine isn't even good for avengers. The elementaldmg you deal with vengeance is based on your physical damage, hence botd will have a far greater damage output as well as being faster...
     

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