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WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by droid, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    For most bowazons, especially pure ones, their WF socket is locked in: either Shael for Faith Merc users, or 15 IAS for Might Merc users, to hit the 95 and 89 IAS BPs, respectively.

    Hybridzons - or those that go with an unorthodox WF bowazon build - that make use of an IAS amulet like Highlords or Cats Eye have complete flexibility in their WF socket, though.

    The conventional wisdom is to max out your damage with a 40ED jewel, ideally a 40ED/15Max. However, the numbers seem to suggest a lowly Eth would be almost equally an ideal socket companion.

    With a typical full endgame setup, a 40ED jewel adds just under 5% to your total DPS. A 40/15 adds just a hair over 7% to your total DPS, and is of course exceedingly expensive. Ohm, incidentally, gives a little over 6% more DPS.

    Assuming an AR of around 7500 for a L90 amazon, while most typical Hell monsters in areas you'd run (CS, WSK, etc). have a def that can be rounded to 2000, your raw CtH will come out somewhere around 81%. With an Eth, that chance goes up to 85%, almost a 5% increase in your DPS and on par with a 40ED jewel.

    However, Hybrids often don't have the spare points to max out Penetrate, and might have an AR slightly lower, perhaps around 6000. In that case, against a 2k def monster, your CtH goes from 77 to 82, an increase of about 6.5%, just under a 40/15 jewel and outperforming an Ohm.

    And, as you can imagine, against stoneskin bosses, act bosses, and other high-level/high-defense opponents, Eth becomes even more effective.

    Basic Conclusion

    A 40ed/15max jewel is always the best option, if you can get one. If you can't, the next best option is probably an Eth, on par with an Ohm or a plain 40ED jewel, and the lower your AR, the more Eth outshines either of those.

    Caveat: Cows only have a def of about 1200, and Pit monsters around there as well, so if you're primarily or heavily a Cowing and/or Pit bowazon, Eth won't serve you very well. That being said, most Pit monsters are 1HKO for endgame Bowazons already :)
     
  2. Kijya

    Kijya Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    In the end one can always resort to math to decide, such as you've done here, for each specific setup. Too many variables to decide on a general rule, but 6k AR is too low for my liking and defiantly should be increased if one lands on that number.

    Lava gout gloves enchant will give the same bonus as about 12 extra levels in penetrate, and that enchant will recast before it runs out. Loosing 350% ed against demons from LoH hurts but the demons in cs for example are better targets for using your javelins on anyway. Likewise it hurts to loose +2 javelin skills if you here using such gloves, but it's not like your javelin side will break because of it.
    Demon limb enchant is of course about twice as effective as lava gout, but personally I don't like bothering to cast from charges if I have to switch equipment to do it. Still, it does last around 11 minutes so you can use basically once per games unless you're running multiple areas in each one.


    Against stone skin or bosses charged strike should be your main skill of course, but if you have to use arrows you can always use GA in the rare case that it's an LI/stoneskin that happens to not be PI too. :scratchchin:

    I wouldn't say that an 40ED/15Max or ohm are the only top end damage increases actually. Unless your critical strike is high a LO might do the most with its extra 20% DS. At level 16 CS a Lo should give overall 7% damage increase, more at lower CS levels and less at higher CS levels, and I doubt many hybrids go over lvl 16 CS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  3. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    Why even go that far?
    You can settle for a /3 strafe (on your hybrid amazon that is).



     
  4. Kijya

    Kijya Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    Well that's only the case if you're using strafe exclusively. There's no breakpoints for strafe at 89 or 95 for a 10 WSM bow such as WF, so he's of course talking about about the 9fpa (without fana) and 7fpa (with fana) multi breakpoints. :wink:



     
  5. NASE

    NASE Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    Yes, I know my breakpoints all to well.
    The question is, why bother about multishot breakpoints on your secondary weapon when strafe can take care of it just as good.

    Just saying that one might want to think about this setup too and look for socketing options there.



     
  6. Kijya

    Kijya Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    I'd say that depends a lot on the users playstyle, the bow might not even be the secondary weapon after all. Thus the reason for my post, I see a clear reason to go "that far" on the IAS, for the sake of multi, which droid is of course taking into consideration.

    Still, I don't mind discussing options for those who only use strafe at all. I'm up for it anytime. :cloud9:

    Cham anyone? :D



     
  7. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WF Socketing and Hybridzons: Food for Thought

    Yeah there's a continuum of hybridization from nearly-pure-jav to nearly-pure-bow; I personally tend towards the latter, but the entire point of the hybridzon is that you can customize it to fit your natural playstyle.

    If you're just going pure Strafe, you're probably more of a jav-heavy build with Strafe backup, which means your other gear choices arent going to fall into the bow-heavy cookie-cutter build to begin with - and AR doesnt matter as much to a javazon anyway :) For those that do primary killing with the bow, then MS is probably your first attack in target-rich environments like Cows and CS, and is worthwhile to hit a BP for.

    I also didnt intend this purely for hybridzons either, as there are pure bowazons that might, e.g., eschew the usual Fort in favor of a Treachery or something, that would likewise free them from the shackles of socketing WF for IAS :)

    Lo is a good idea...I had assumed when I was running the numbers that the effectiveness of Lo would be reduced if you used Gores and/or Highlords, I thought stacking DD sources has diminishing returns, but counterintuitively, it seems you get that same 7% boost with L16 CS no matter what other gear you use (as long as your net DS is under 80% before Lo), weird...I guess Lo is among your best bets, on par with a 40/15 :)

    Though if you're going to start considering top-level HRs to socket, Jah is probably going to be the best. Raising your CtH to 95% against everything except (IIRC) act bosses is a net increase of anywhere from 11% (85% to 95%) to as much as 23% (77% to 95%) or more
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010

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