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weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by akatsukimem, Apr 28, 2009.

  1. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    I'm not arguing against terminology .. i'm arguing about total lack of objectivity and a completely flawed and silly logic ... nobody is giving any meaningful reason as to why those weapons can't be re-introduced into diablo world other than repeating over and over that they are anime weapons ... which is a laughable and weird argument.

    Source of weapons or where they originate from is completely irrelevant to the argument and serves no purpose other than showing how much some people are close minded and can't keep their anime-hate issues out of the argument and be objective about the weapon designs for once ... only thing that matters is the weapons design and how they could be made to fit Diablo's world.



    There is no doubt that the developers are the only ones to decide what's Diablo and what's not (like how Bashiok laughed at those who say that repeatedly and pointed out sarcastically that Diablo world doesn't exist for real in case people didn't notice).

    The only thing we can criticize is whether what they added is given a reasonable background/explanation and lore or was it just thrown in for the heck of it.

    If Asian themed or any new weapons were added to the game and given a nice background story and lore then no one has any right to complain at all.


     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    They are still setting inappropriate. Adding in a pink unicorn who walks around on one hind leg and dispenses monsters by just loving them so gosh-darned much will always be setting inappropriate no matter the background or lore. It goes against the verisimilitude of the setting. Same for the ridiculous oversized weaponry. It is just not believable given the setting and the coherent world of the Diablo universe.

    The same goes for guns. Yes, it might be technically possible given the technology from the middle ages that they are trying to emulate, but the way the world is constructed doesn't lend itself to their use without guns coming over as forced into the setting. Given what we know of Sanctuary it would feel wrong.



     
  3. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Nobody mentioned pink unicorns .. that's just pure exaggeration .. we are talking about weapons ... something that is already in the game and the additions suggested to it is clearly in the same vein.

    -Suggesting large swords, axes or even cannons is OK cause they are freaking weapons that can be crafted even in real life (not just fantasy worlds) and can be used provided someone is strong and huge enough to use them (i.e the barbarian .. 2.4 meters high and almost 140 kg muscles wall).

    -Suggesting pink unicorns, flying sausages, dancing mulorks isn't .. no doubt no matter what they do there is no logic or lore that can make that work.

    Believable by what merit or logic .. its a fantsay world ... people use crystal swords to fight freaking demons and use floating spheres to zap the undead .. is using a crystal sword believable .. hell no .. does it make sense .. no ... is there a problem with it being in the game .. NO .. cause it's a fantasy world.

    And don't bring the magic argument cause it is a big failure too .. if magic was the everything in Diablo people wouldn't have needed armor or weapons to fight with .. and wouldn't have needed to develop technology to build houses or craft things ... Diablo ISN'T a pure magic world ..magic and technology go hand in hand in Diablo's world.

    Also calling Diablo world coherent is quite a stretch and isn't a reason why that so called coherent world can't evolve and change .. coherent =/= stagnant.

    Everybody just keeps repeating "it feels wrong" without providing one good reason why ... game design doesn't work with hunches and feelings ... if an addition is going to make the game more interesting and varied and doesn't stray much from what's already in the game (stray like adding aliens or pink unicorns or completely new sentient species) then so be it.


     
  4. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    "Oh, they have crystal swords"
    Crystal swords are the exception, not the rule. There's a total of ninety seven weapons, not counting exceptional and elite counterparts. Take out the wands, orbs, and staves, and you still have 83 weapons that are actually used in combat. Furthermore, of all the combat weapons, Crystal Swords have the lowest durability. Only wands have less durability than these things.

    "The barbarian could use huge weapons"
    Okay, now what about the Witch Doctor? Would it look believable for him to wield one? And if I remember right, they're trying to avoid class-specific items in D3.
     
  5. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Your point !!!?

    Nobody said those new large or unusual weapons are going to replace the so called 83 realistic weapons.

    As you said yourself, those new weapons too are going to be just exceptions (like the wand and crystal sword), furthermore .. the larger the weapon the slower it is. :coffee:


    Witch doctors already can wield any weapon in D3 no matter how huge it is (restricted only by Ch. level), and actually from what i heard they are aiming at the opposite of what you said, there will be more class specific weapons and items.


     
  6. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    You keep missing the point again and again. It doesn't matter if it is possible in real life. It doesn't matter if it can be explained. It doesn't matter that the game is a fantasy world. All that matters is if something that is being introduced in the setting will feel like a coherent part of that setting.



     
  7. Nihilas

    Nihilas Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Couldn't agree more, even if you could make a good lire out of it "a major god crafted this enorumous item so bla bla bla". It wouldn't fit the diablo world, exactly the same as pick unicorns don't. You were extremly fast to judge them since they are unrealistic and no lore could explain them but lore could explain just mention god and devil and a horse like creature showed up. BUT IT WOULD GET SCREWED SAME LIKE THOSE WEPAON, they do not fit in diablo, same as we could have players riding horses or riding dragons <- do not fit, face it.


     
  8. AFireInside

    AFireInside Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    haha take it easy on the guy =P I'll admit these aren't the kind of weapons I want in D3 either, but don't bash him because he likes gigantic anime weapons. Peace & Love
     
  9. AkumaSlayer

    AkumaSlayer Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Actually, that is a perfectly valid argument. I've only ever seen those swords in Bleach, therefore they are anime weapons. They have never been used in history.

    So why shouldn't they be in Diablo? Because they have a completely different style, and would look out of place among the more historical weapons. For example, would you want Valve to add AK47's to TF2? It wouldn't fit.

    The Bleach weapons are also very impractical.


     
  10. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Tell that to those who say it will be too heavy for the characters to use or that it is impractical.


    I'm not missing the point, that point doesn't exist to begin with, that setting you are talking about is man-made and is 100% fictional, there is no such thing as something that won't fit into the setting as long as it can get the necessary treatment and retouches .. and all the weapons mentioned fall perfectly in that category ... flying sausages and pink unicorns don't cause no matter what treatment they get they simply defy simple logic and the logic of the story up to this point.

    That's why Bashiok laughed at all those who use that logic when he mentioned that they don't open a magical window to gaze upon a pre-existing Diablo world/setting from which they derive ideas .. it doesn't exist ... it is what they make it be ... there are easily many ways to explain the appearance of large weapons or even cannons after 20 years from D2 and it's even far easier to give them a feeling and look that fits with the Diablo world .. all it takes is a little creativity.


    Who cares they were never used in history !!!?, Diablo already has weapons that were never used in any history we know of.

    There is nothing wrong with Valve adding AK's to TF2 if they were retouched to have the same look and feel of the game .. that's just too obvious.

    And like i said above, the so called historical weapons are not and never were an excuse not to add unusual and imaginary weapons to Diablo games.

    So are the crystal swords, troll heads, floating orbs, wands, .. etc etc etc .. but still they all work because it's a game not real life.


     
  11. DemolitionSquid

    DemolitionSquid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Knightwolf, I'm sure you remember me from StarCraft Legacy and Blizzforums. And hopefully, you also remember that I'm quite intelligent.

    Thus, I must elaborate on a few points. First, the only weapon in Diablo 2 that did not exist at some point in history is a sword made out of crystal. Even the scepters, wands, and orbs have all existed, minus actual magic power.

    Secondly, all of the weapons in Diablo are useable in real life. Most of those suggested in the pictures from Bleach are so bizzare and unintuitive that they would not be realistically effective in combat, or able to be held by a real person. Now, before you go all "Diablo isn't realistic it has magic zomgwtfbb!!11!1," you need to understand that all of the weapons ARE realistic, even if the magic is not.

    Thus, being that all of the Bleach weapons are not realistic, they do not belong in a setting populated solely (barring a single exception) by realistic weapons.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
  12. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Yes i do :wave:


    Not all of them, the multi-bladed sickle is usable and can be useful in combat, the huge double axe while being too heavy can still be used by a giant person effectively (i.e the Barb)... and so on so forth .. and they (along with any other new weapons that might be added from whatever source) could all be redesigned to fit more with the nature of Diablo's world .. no one asked for them to be copy pasted blindly from bleach or whatever their source is.


    The existence of that single exception (and i still don't really consider it a single one, we still have the troll heads too XD) opens the door for the inclusion of other exceptions to break the monotony of the arsenal .. who doesn't get bored after seeing the same types of swords and axes for the 45245th time.


     
  13. Matora

    Matora Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    There's also a crafting system to be implemented. I think Blizzard have hinted that they plan to add more than socketable gems and the like. Gameplay is where I care. Let's face it, with all the fire and lighting effects on your weapon, the same sword can feel and look (ingame) completely different. In this way, I'm fine with only a hand ful of weapons, let alone the diverse range Diablo II had. What would be better would be if they made them all useful in some way. I don't recall too many characters with scythes or bardiches as main damage dealing thingies.

    But, as for weapons meant for Diablo III, I must disagree. If they were remodeled slightly to look less 'asian' or the like and more 'demonic' I could see them being wielded by the armies of Hell, but not by our noble heroes.
     
  14. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Here you go again. There is a reason it is a coherent setting. That setting has rules in order to keep it coherent. All the lore adheres to these rules. You can't just add in everything and still expect to keep a consistent setting. Not even if it could be explained.

    For instance the Lord of the Rings would not be able to have cat people. It would not fit in the setting. Doesn't matter if other magical creatures inhabit those lands, it just wouldn't fit.



     
  15. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Pardon me, but those rules aren't divine, those rules are made by whoever made the setting and they can be altred and mniapluated by that person as he sees fit, the whole point here is *takes ta deep breath* is how they do it .. integrating something right inot a setting requires smart retouching and creative design skills .. without them even trying to integrate something simple will fail miserably .. but with them and enough intelligence anything can be integrated with varying degrees of success.

    Actually Diablo itself has cat people in Act2 .. but why did it work .. because they were made to be savage and barbaric not cutesy and humorous like in anime ... same goes for LOTR .. if Cat people were presented as a dark, savage race almost with werewolves features (bloodthirst, sharp fangs and teeth, fearsome agility, .. etc etc) they will fit perfectly with the other races in LOTR.

    The point isn't that cat people won't fit with LOTR .. its "how" you make them fit ... that's all there is to it.


     
  16. DemolitionSquid

    DemolitionSquid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    The saddest part of all this is that KnightWolf has a point. Its a flawed, horribly twisted and utterly revolting point, but it`s there.

    Thankfully, Blizzard thinks like most of us, and not in terms of Bleach. These weapons will not appear in Diablo 3, because 99% of the player base believes they shouldn`t, and because the only argument for their existence is that a single weapon out of nearly 100 in Diablo 2 was made of a questionably fragile material.

    I think this issue is closed by popular demand. I will, however, address this point:

    You`re suggesting these weapons would fit if they were altered. That in fact does weaken your argument, because many already existed in D2 as modifications. The Scythe is just a less exuberant version of a few of the pictures. The standard sword is just a less exuberant form of many other pictures. The images do not exist because they are too complex. If they were refined into simpler forms, they might have merit. But at that point they are no longer the weapons you want. They are the simpler Katanas and Sickles that already populate D2. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.


     
  17. xduncanx

    xduncanx Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    Does someone claim to know what crystalline substance that sword was made out of?
    glass? ice? iron? diamond?
    Most anything can be arranged into a crystalline structure of some description and not most of these are 'fragile'. Though it would be fair to say that the predominate failure mechanism is brittle, which in inherent in their structure.
    But i think Bliz catered well for this with the 5 second durability.

    And for those who say the weapon never existed, i wouldn't be so sure. I can certainly envision a crystal pulled from the earth and shaped into a sacrificial knife/sword thought to have mystical power.

    And Knightwolf, 1 thing to ponder:
    By your argument they could write cars and trucks into Diablo, weird anime weapons, orcs and elves, Aliens, guns, they could even remove magic.... as you say, anything they wanted.... because it's not real life.
    Hell, any fictional game could do this. Any fictional medium could do this.
    But they don't. You may find some exceptions to the fact, but I'm comfortable in saying that they don't.
    It's clear that most of us understand why this is. It is, after all, a very simple concept.
    So your assignment for the week is to go away clear your head of your obvious bias and think about it.


     
  18. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    I think the Cats in LOTR example pretty much stands for what i wanted to say ... if someone said i wanted cat people in D2 before it was released he probably would have been bashed to oblivion by angry fans for wanting to add cutesy and furry girls into a serious game like Diablo (because that's the image they have from anime)

    But look at how Blizz did it ... they incorporated the cat people pretty well and MADE them fit with the diablo theme and general setting.

    So altering the weapons to fit with Diablo doesn't necessarily mean to simplify them, there are many ways to redesign things or reintroduce them into a new setting, and not only will they look different from the other typical weapons but will also function differently.

    Hard to make a point by talking i guess ... well i guess some drawing will have to be involved then .. i'll give few examples of how that reintroduction of those weapons into diablo could be done.



    Find me a decent way to incorporate all those things you mentioned into Diablo and i will give you a cookie for each one .. it's just too much wasted time and creative effort without a very good outcome (a blind shot that is) .. but fact is there are already a dozen of ways to incorporate all the weapons we talked about here and make them fit Diablo's world cause they aren't lazer guns or tanks but rather more interesting variations of weapons already in the game.


    Sadly i will have to disagree, many fantasy stories and games incorporate technology and various elements that might at the first glance seem incoherent and make it all fit together ... Nox is one good example .. also WoW incorporated aliens and it still feels generally coherent (even if some lore fanatics didn't like that part)

    They are too many to consider exceptions, it's a style of its own (i.e incorporating futuristic, technological and unusual seemingly incoherent elements into fantasy stories) .. steampunk is a good example of that style.

    I'm not the one who likes to jab at something just because it has the word anime on it like many did at the beginning of the topic .... besides .. biased against what exactly !!!? .. if those unusual weapons were from LOTR or Harry potter i would have said the same exact things.

    Oh ... And i take assignments from no one .. finished my collage already .. no more assignments !!! :crazyeyes:


    ------------------------------------------------------

    Actually on a second thought .. even UNICORNS could fit in diablo if they were designed to look like this baby (no joke).

    [​IMG]
    ART by centradragon http://centradragon.deviantart.com/

    Undead unicorn FTW ... who wouldn't want to fight a unicorn from hell.


     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  19. xduncanx

    xduncanx Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    I meant any one of those things wouldn't fit, but that doesn't matter. The reason those things don't fit is because the theme has been set. We know what that theme is and we realistically know what we can expect from D3. Hence why so many are against you.

    You missed the point. In fantasy you can set the theme however you want at the beginning, I'm not arguing that.
    I don't know what NOX is but i'm sure they didn't have a typical fantasy theme for 2 installments and then randomly add technology.
    I haven't played WOW but i did hear that it is all cartoony and childish.

    I dont care for anime much but this is about diablo staying true to its theme. which means only realistic weapons. And, once again,... there is good reason why anime style weapons did not appear in LOTR or harry potter, if you still can't figure out why that is..... go and think some more.

    Christ..... and i thought there was hope.
    the situation is worse than i thought, you're an artist. :funnyabove:


     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009
  20. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: weapons that were meant for diablo 3!!!

    The theme was set by Blizz and it can be manipulated by them as well .. as long as that manipulation isn't extreme it should be fine .. that's called evolving.



    Yes it didn't but it is proof you can mix fantasy with technology and make it feel coherent.

    As for WoW .. the art style is irrelevant to the lore .. Warcraft had a typical high fantasy theme (i.e LOTR .. humans, elves, orcs, dwarfs) which has nothing to do with aliens .. but they successfully integrated them because someone was imaginative and creative enough to find a good way to do it .. that's the whole point.



    And proud of it :crazyeyes:

    -------------------------------------

    I didn't hear a good reply regarding the addition of Cat people in D2, specially that it is clear proof it is possible to add something into a setting that at first glance seems incoherent but could be artistically and smartly re-designed to fit.

    I will actually start demanding an Undead unicorn boss in D3 that's in the same vein as the one in the picture above ... and it must fire disintegrate rays from its horn too :crazyeyes:


     
    Last edited: May 19, 2009

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