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Weapon Block - A Good Thing - or a BAD thing??

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by mangadrive, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. mangadrive

    mangadrive IncGamers Member

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    Weapon Block - A Good Thing - or a BAD thing??

    This theory has been passed around since the birth of the ASA. Ive played many different builds and im currently working a new 1.10 one. I always noticed though WB really crippled my style. Reason:

    Weapon Block states that its a % chance to block an incoming attack. (note the singular usage of the word ATTACK). Basically meaning if you are fighting Bremm Sparkfist and all his minions in one battle and Bremm throws a punch you will block.. that punch. Not the other 5 guys attacking you and dropping meteors on your head as well. This 'stuns' you and makes a nice 'dink' noise. Sometimes 2-3 times before you can even swing depending on how much harness this skill or with + skills gear and also how much seems to be attacking you. If you are blocking Bremm then you are open to get hit by the whole 3rd floor of durance of hate... right?

    Now in 1.10 it also blocks elemental attacks so imagine Bremm and his fan club throwing hydras into the mix, which are blockable..? Elemental attack no?
    So all of this stuff flying at you adds many dice rolls on the WB skill and triggers it over and over and over. I find poor Leigh_Harvey standing in a pile of monsters and all i can hear is 'DINK DINK DINK' and im watching her red bubble go down down down because she cant get any hits in to leech and pull off her combos. Ill get 2 charges of PS swirling and have to wait for 'DINK' to get the 3rd..take damage by at least one mob coming back out of the animation and land my finisher.

    Now if she didnt have to take the time/frame to block she would have nailed Bremm 3 times for 10+% life/mana leech plus dropped off her PS/TS/whatever charge. Rinse repeat until him and his fan club are dead.

    This mainly applies to an PvM MA assassin and the way i choose to play her. I use hit and run tactics and I try not to take on large quanities of mobs where its not nessicary. When it does happen though i find myself hearing 'DINK' more than i would like... so the next couple days of d2 time are going to be spent into testing a new build without WB in 1.10 ladder...

    If i had a PvP build. Then most certainly i would love to block as much as possible because im fighting one dood/doodette. If i were a trap asa then sure
    i would love to block all that stuff flying at me while i lay traps down and back off/lure, but if im trying to get inside and deliver hits then that doesnt need to be interupted. I can simply have a SS/Jade Talon and/or tucs to switch over to block if/when its totally ultra nessicary which is never if you use the ASAs speed and try not to overwealm yourself. Your not generally a tank so you know the drill..

    am i just crazy or does anyone semi-agree with this?
     
  2. Naliworld

    Naliworld IncGamers Member

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    Hm...with the aid of CoS, MB, and an SM, I don't get surrounded often, even with a pure melee DTalon'er. Even if CoS alone isn't enough, a few MB converts will sustain for for a short while...
     
  3. Ritslev

    Ritslev IncGamers Member

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    You're not nuts... I totally agree.

    My Multi Build Sin just doens't work anymore due to her high block. Ihad to limt her block to 30% instead of 62% .. for her to even be fun to play in hell diff... that is a shame really
     
  4. TheZealot

    TheZealot IncGamers Member

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    its not wise to go pure weapon block, try to use c/s +c/c, when fighting melee use c/s, when fighting casters use c/c. put 1 point in weapon block, ull have very high % with + skills items
     
  5. Soepgroente

    Soepgroente IncGamers Member

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    You're likely to have one point of dragon tail since no assassin shouldn't have at least 1 in dragon flight. Use that to scatter the group, i think it works great :)
     
  6. mangadrive

    mangadrive IncGamers Member

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    I only used one point in my latest build and it drove me absolutly berserk trying to escape certain situations. The troubles started as early as Act I Hell in areas like the Tamoe Highland were there are camps of archers/skeletal mages that are pretty smart now and use the 'lets freeze this chick and pelt her with everything we got while she trys to run away'. So i figured a Ravenfrost would solve that problem. Well now she has mobility but it doesnt stop the fact that shes trying to block the arrows,the mages and the lancer critters attacks all at once which at ANY % of weapon block becomes a pain.
    If you have 20 things being thrown at you and you have say a 46% chance to block then you are just waiting to be 'stunned'. I even restorted to getting a load of damage reduction gear (shaft/gaze/string) to counter but it only cushions the prob. This goes totally for my play style though :) Certain builds will benifit GREATLY from WB.

    I hadnt exactly read into the changes with that finisher until last night. I tried to formulate my own opinion and not go with the cookie cutter thing but the math alone says DT is worth its weight in sojs. I have some Gore Riders so I will shoot to upgrade those whenever i find what the recipe is. Dragon Flight is almost always a must but sometimes you wont benifit because you get stuck blocking yet again. Im going to leave a skill point open for DF and only use it if its totally nessicary. This build will be kept as minimalist as possible and prolly very heavy MA.


    The sad thing is to even use your 'shadow' clone, there is NO way around not putting a point in weapon block. So you have to sacrifice your diversion in order to gain to better crowd control through the means of being able to kill the mob you intend to isolate on without being 'stunned' by WB.. So it will be interesting to see what happens... Ill come back to this in a few days or so after i make my new build to report how it went w/o WB.
     
  7. mangadrive

    mangadrive IncGamers Member

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    Well my newest build was kept bare minimum. I used:

    20 CM
    20 TS
    20 DT

    1- BoS

    5-DS (still going up)

    I left out weapon block which was a huge success and it eliminated the probs i had. Ive run her resists up with a Jade Talon. I stuck an Um in her Shaftstop and gotten various +all resist charms. Now im finding it really isnt elemental damage thats killing her just plain being swarmed all at once. Even with a fair amount of Damage reduction gear, tons of life leech (even draculs for the undead perps) and upgraded Gore Riders (myrmadon), she is still a chore to keep alive. I have access to a friends Trap assassin in full Nats gear/Bartucs/Jade Talon/Ravenfrost and many other + trap charms and Ive played her for a comparision....

    All i have to say is going pure MA is a sad sad route anyway you look at these days. Its incredibly fun to try and has always been my favorite. I always though of pure trappers as kinda cheap (in comparison as to how i like to play), but its about the only way to go with Hell the way it is these days. Sad but.. true.. If you dont belive me /w Darkness_Born on Us East and Ill show you the difference between the two hehe. I even tried the Nats Set on the MA model and its still A lot of work splitting up hell mobs. For shiz and giggles i even tried some pit runs. Good luck surviving the second level when you are swarmed with archers and there is no room to work. Freeze them you say? Oh well most are immune cold.. Getting those first 3 hits for TS is easy but landing that last one and getting out alive is 50/50 in any crowd.. Unless i find some ungodly creul claw or something to keep my intrest in the MA model, i dont see myself investing a great deal of time until later when i go back to max her out much later. I have other chars I have yet to try in 1.10 catching my interest now....

    Final Verdict: WB is a horrible thing forced upon MA builds. You NEED the distraction in your shadow clone.. which is a pre-req.. Then again WB stuns you when you are trying to attack like discussed above.. You almost need at least 1 good trap on an MA build too. Its not a *need* but its great to have for misc damage when you are running off because .. you are going to have to run off. 3-4 mobs in a cluster in about max capacity in hell. You can start splitting up with TS/DT and freezing the others (that arent immune) and work your way around. I would suggest tons of life leech and dracul's gloves though. Even with 1300 life - 8/7/17 Gaze - 205% Umed Shaft and Pstring.. its not enough.. she cant work inside long at all.. Its very possible to guild her through Hell like its no thing.. BUT its a very long process. I was on my rant about speed on the post above but .. theres no speed in beating on zombies forever and drinking potions.. I have a friend that has a 85 full IK barb and I play crowd control while he picks off the superbosses. This is where a MA shines.. His BO puts her on the level she should really be in terms of melee.

    If you wanna have a succesful asassain that you can keep alive for long periods of time and do a little mfing with in Hell SOLO.. spend all your money and/or points in the Trap department.. Even with these new 'syns' on the MA skills its trivial damage % because its very situational... You have the option of basically upping the charges of PS and gaining a 'elemental specialty' but Immunites are everywhere. You are going to have to fall back on weak skills at some point. That really goes for any character who uses elemental magic, but unless you put 20 points in Venom you dont really even have melee damage to fall back on.. Now you are taking points away from Fade and having to rely on Resist gear.. Which cripples something else.. and starts the domino effect. You could say a DS/LS trapper would be resisted by lighting. Its a lot easier to turn on Wake of Whatever to kill just ONE mob and lay out DS in a square and watch the whole crowd explode because Corpse Explosion cannot be resisted.. ever.. That fact alone pretty much sums it up. Im pretty saddened with the options of an assassin in 1.10.... next class please.

    After ive gone through a few other classes Ill come back and make an asa, but its just a 'fun' char now...

    :(
     
  8. Kodachi_ysaane

    Kodachi_ysaane Banned

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    yea, I agree completely...
    in 1.09 asns didnt have this problem as dragon claw was uninteruptable..
    Now with 1.10, blizzard FOR SOME REASON decided to nerf dual claw asns and make dragon claw interuptable....
    dual claw asns now have 5 frame block and wont even land a hit on a decent zealot pvp. GIVE US OUR UNINTERUPTABILITY BACK
     
  9. marvel.

    marvel. Banned

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    silly koda, dragon fist and FoF were bugged in 09, also banned from legit melee duels according to pvp-east/d2-pvp/weakness
     
  10. Kodachi_ysaane

    Kodachi_ysaane Banned

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    silly marvel, in 1.09 dual claw assasins had dragon claw, which was programmed uninteruptable on purpose.
     
  11. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    I don't seem to notice the WB thing and I have about 10 after +skills. I use CoS and Dtail a lot, so I'm not usually surrounded. I do have C/S on switch though for OW/resists/CB. I think the MA sin is a blast, better than my hybrid-trapper since D-tail is AoE. I can't run the pit players8 with my trapper which my MA can (not a lot of MF though, sadly).
     

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