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Waterwalks or Hotspurs on Hammerdin?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Hookipa, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Hookipa

    Hookipa Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hi guys,

    I'd like your thoughts on which choice you would make.

    Truth is I have equipped upped Hotspurs for quite some time now on my hammerdin, probably from level 91 and he sits now at level 96. I really enjoy the 90% fire resistance, which is THE reason I equip them.

    However, given my current equopment I calculated that switching to upped Waterwalks would net me in terms of:
    Life: about +210, from 4229 > 4429.
    Defense:about +1000 from 12.864 > 13.864
    Frw: +20%

    The main loss would obviously dropping fire resis from 90% > 80% and the +45 fire resis itself. Those can however be compensated with fire/life charms...

    Given this difference I feel kind of inclined to switch back to waterwalks.

    What would you do?
     
  2. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Depends what you are doing. My hammerdin runs CS, so I use Hotspurs. If I was doing anything else with him, I probably wouldn't use them. Maybe WW or Treks.
     
  3. Neksja

    Neksja Diabloii.Net Member

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    I went with Waterwalks on my 99-running CS Hammerdin, who is 98 at the moment. I have about 3.3k life, but I also opted for putting 10 points into Resist Fire to get 85 max fire res, so it's not directly comparable.

    I have not regretted the choice. It works pretty great, except when Infector has Conviction aura and I am in a bit of a trouble. But Conviction Infector is relatively rare, so I don't mind having to Save and Exit or take longer to kill him more cautiously. Hotspurs would help with this as that 45% fire res really stacks your fire res and Conviction is not that dangerous. I could also use more fire res charms but I haven't bothered.

    If it's all-purpose Hammerdin, I'd go with Waterwalks. If CS only, then Hotspurs would probably be better for you. That +200 life at 4k+ won't make much of a difference, I assume you have Max Block as well? I doubt that 1k extra defense is going to do that much difference and if you have Enigma, that 20frw doesn't help much, if at all.

    Also, I wouldn't count out War Travelers or Sandstorm Trek.
     
  4. DiabloTwoinDC

    DiabloTwoinDC Diabloii.Net Member

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    As an Arsenal fan, I must condem the wearing of any Hotspurs attire!!!
     
  5. Xios

    Xios Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm not a high level Hammerdin, but as far as my thoughts go..

    When you're already at CTA/BO levels of health, I don't feel like an extra 200 will make much a difference as I'd assume your deaths are a bit more of all or nothing affairs. If it is important however, it's certainly a lot easier to squeeze out extra life in other slots (and obviously in charms) than it is to get +Maximum Resists, even on a Paladin.

    Assuming no Conviction, the jump from 80% to 90% resist is nearly double your effective health (22145 vs. 42290) from pure fire sources, even accounting for the change in life. So if you're worried at all about Fire Damage (say, you're in CS) then you could see it as very specialized life gain, in one way. With Conviction in play, you'll presumably be better off due to the extra Fire Resist in place to counteract it, and the same argument (in reverse) comes into play.

    Of course, if you're under no threat of Fire Damage, the above arguments are fairly moot.

    As far as the Defense goes, despite being a Paladin and getting the best bang for your buck there, diminishing returns are quite common. If say, a Doom Knight on players 7 attacks you, then you'd have a level 82 enemy with 5929 (x1.375 for Players 7) AR.

    That'd give you about ~35.74% vs. ~34.12% chance of getting hit, assuming max [75%] block = ~8.94% vs. ~8.53%

    ..The main point is that the difference is pretty small, and it'll only continue to be more and more marginal the higher the AR of the enemy (Such as Lord De Seis and his pack of goons).

    For FRW, I assume you're using an Enigma, to which FRW is nice but more a luxury. It also suffers from diminishing returns although if you only have Enigma + Boots giving the potential FRW, that's not a huge argument. For convenience in town, you're a Hammerdin so you already have max level Vigor (which does not interact with FRW and thus always gives its full bonus) which I'm sure is plenty for shopping.

    Just some observations. I'd say if you're benefiting from the Fire Resist in any significant way, it probably outdoes the other benefits. If you feel you're never taking Fire Damage well, that sort of defeats the purpose of such specialized boots.
     
  6. Hookipa

    Hookipa Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks for the input!

    My hammerdin is running CS, now about 1/5 in to get to level 97. It took me quite some time so I certainly don't want to risk any deaths.
    Up till now there have not been even any close deaths and there have been some nasty combo's.

    Although CS has some nasty fire dmg enemies, at this point they don;t seem to do any significant damage, however doubling the damage because of the decrease from 90% > 80% might make a big difference.
    In CS the only real danger has been Lord de Seis and for him I'd like extra defensive stats (i.e. life and a bit of def).

    So I'll switch to waterwalk for a test, run a bit more careful and decide if I can still run comfortably against all those venom lords and Infector, and to appease the footbal fans of course @DiabloTwoinDC . If not, I'll switch back for the time being.

    After running CS I 'll most likely permantly switch to waterwalks.

    Thanks again.
     
    DiabloTwoinDC likes this.
  7. Burgomaster3

    Burgomaster3 Diabloii.Net Member

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    I use Hotspurs on my level 96 Hammerdin. Haven't really looked back, being able to telestomp Infector even when he has Conviction is fun. Before I found Hotspurs I tried Infernostride, and the extra safety from 'Spurs was noticeable.

    You most likely already have like 3k life which I find to be enough to be comfortable in CS. FRW is trivial since you have Enigma and Vigor, and Hotspurs>Waterwalk when it comes to fire res.

    I doubt Waterwalks give you much edge when fighting De Seis, and you're just making Infector more dangerous. But whatever fits your style. At level 96, doing Infector+Vizier (p8) runs net you more XP/hour than Seals+Diablo, so killing De Seis isn't absolutely necessary unless you really want to kill Diablo. I mostly skip DeSeis, since he's the primary source of deaths in CS.

    For other targets than CS, I'd probably only consider using War Travelers.
     
  8. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    In CS, a hammer din's two biggest threats in order of severity (based on my own experience of course) are;

    1. Physical damage from De Sies' cronies, although only if swamped. Easily avoidable by proper positioning.

    2. Fire damage (really only with conviction present) at Infector. Easily countered with hotspurs.

    Block. High life. Hotspurs. Damage reduction if you have it, shako + Enigma. Maybe even a Ber in your shako.
     
  9. gedda-d-e

    gedda-d-e Diabloii.Net Member

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    Interesting topic. One question, when you guys talk about "CS runner", is your aim ultimately exp or mf? One leads to the other but I mean which one you are geared towards :)

    Personally, like @Neksja said, it would be difficult to look past War travs or a decent pair of rares, no?

    Would love to know the rest of your set-ups however, I am currently questing my own MF-hammerdin, torn which route to go with the last couple of skill points and gear as well.

    /g
     
  10. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Pretty sure I went Hotspur on my CS/Diablo hdin when I was farming reroll tokens, simply because a broken run cost too much time breaking the seals and all that. Hotspur allowed me to just plow any combination of extra cursed conviction whatever it just didn't matter.
     
  11. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Experience. I would suggest that if MF is the goal, CS is the wrong place :p
     
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  12. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

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    I tried Waterwalks on my CS Hammerdin but turned back to Hotspurs and never looked back. Yes, the biggest threat in the CS is possibly the De Seis pack, but with WWs, there's suddenly another potentially dangerous pack more in the form of Conviction Infector/other Megademon packs.

    For (high) level leveling I'd definitely go with the spurs again. If I were to level a Hammerdin in the CS for like 95 or so, I'd probably pick Wartravelers for some more MF.
     
  13. Gripphon

    Gripphon Diabloii.Net Member

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    Safest variant is to use Rising Sun amulet which completely turns megademon fire into healing fountaine and you don't have to worry about fire at all. You could use War Traveler boots then too. Downside is you lose 3 skill points to make up for fcr via ring.

    Second solution is to use Hotspurs and have 3 extra skill points. Don't forget to upp the boots to elite level.

    Waterwalks won't really make De Seis pack easier, but they will certainly make fire more dangerous to you, you will actually have to use potions which you don't really need to with Hotspurs. Defense is pretty irrelevant as is frw.

    For De Seis pack possibly best solution is holy freeze merc. Just tele south from them (because your hammers start from the northeast from you) and his aura will slow them enough to make them hardly dangerous at all. Downside is, it will freeze everyone around and you might have more problems finding bosses in a pack like De Seis since everything will turn blue around.

    Safest and most profitable XP solution is to ignore De Seis and Diablo and kill only 2 seal packs with other bosspacks in between (ignore champions as well, they are irrelevant for xp). At level 97 it starts to be beneficial to start killing Diablo for xp. At level 96 it is profitable only if it takes you like 2 minutes or whatever to kill 2 seal packs and packs between them, otherwise hitting Diablo is actually gonna slow down your xp progress, even considerably if you are fast runner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  14. Hookipa

    Hookipa Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks for all your input!

    After some testing with Waterwalks in CS and other areas (i.e. Baal/ Mephi/ Travi/ just clearing area’s) I concluded that for me:


    CS Infector

    > Even without the 90% (but 80%) fire resistance I can still quite easily manage Infector and Venom Lord. My general impression was that with 90% in various situations Infector does between 500-1000 damage when I telestomp.
    > With WW 90% it is between 1000-2000 when I telestomp.
    > When I attack at full life +4400 hp it is still quite safe. However, often I attack him with about 3000 hp, because I already killed bosspacks and did all the seals.

    Because when I play it is often in the weekend at night with a beer I really enjoy not having to be very concentrated (I have my concentration aura for that J). Hotspurs just take that edge off.


    Other areas
    For all the other areas (obvious exception being travi) I enjoyed the added life. In my perpective, although fire dmg is very prominent in the game, the 230 added life is protection against all damage.

    Therefore, at least till level 97 I will switch back to hotspurs. If I stop with CS running afterwards I will switch to WW.
     
  15. d2fan

    d2fan Diabloii.Net Member

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    rising sun renders hotspurs obsolete tho.
     
  16. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    True, but the alternative amulets are far better than the alternative boots. Boots are less flexible than the amulet.
     

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