# venom / poisons sc's

#### Shucandi

##### Diabloii.Net Member
venom / poisons sc's

i once long time ago heard that the poisen u get from scs goes into ur venom skill? for example u have a 451 poison dmg over 11 sec in ur inventory then the 451 dmg will go into venom and have a effect over 0.4 sec insted of 11 sec like it says on sc?

#### mephiztophelez

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

the bitrate of the pdsc remains the same (same damage/second) but it the duration get shortened to 0.4 seconds (0.8 in hell)

bottom line: using pdsc's if your using venom is really really dumb.

#### improvius

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Just to clarify, 451/11 = 41 per second. 41 * .4 = a whopping 16 damage per application of Venom.

#### Shucandi

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Just to clarify, 451/11 = 41 per second. 41 * .4 = a whopping 16 damage per application of Venom.
i dont understand why u are +ing the sec xD it should be like if i have 10 of 451 scs over 11 sec , then it would be 4510 over 11 secs... sounds too lame if u + the time then u gonna end up with lower and lower dmg xD

the bitrate of the pdsc remains the same (same damage/second) but it the duration get shortened to 0.4 seconds (0.8 in hell)

bottom line: using pdsc's if your using venom is really really dumb.
why is it 0.8 sec in hell?

but if the duration from sc's get to 0.4 insted of 11 sec then it is alot more dmg becuase it is faster dealed dmg,, u gonna give 451 more dmg over 0.4 sec insted of 11 sec..? so why is it dumb?

-sorry for asking dumb if thats how it sound xD u i just wanna know how it works

#### improvius

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Your 451/11 charm has a rate and a duration. The rate is 41 damage per second, and the duration is 11 seconds. That's how it comes out to 451 damage over 11 seconds. Venom reduces the DURATION of ALL of your poison damage to .4 seconds, but it doesn't affect the rate. So with Venom on, your 451/11 charm will only add 16 damage per hit with Venom's .4 sec rate.

#### Alc

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

i just wanna know how it works
Improvius and mephiztophelez have already told you - when using Venom your 11 seconds of poison damage gets reduced to .4 of a second, so you only get 16 damage before the poison ends, it doesn't get a chance to do any of the remaining 435 poison damage.

What's hard to understand about that?

#### Joergermeister

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Multiply that 16 damage by ten and you get 160 damage per application.

I second the "really dumb" assertation made above.

#### Indecisive

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

I don't think I like poison or OW. Poison and OW works best when you hit several targets at the same time and move on to other targets, letting the poison kick in, since neither poison nor open wounds stack. I'm thinking that an amazon would best take advantage of this tactic with multiple arrows (if OW transfers to arrow that is). The drawback with this tactic of course is that more monsters will face you at the same time in comparison to the normal tactic where you attack one monster at a time until its dead and then move on to next monster.

With venom I can't think of a way to deal damage to several monsters at a time. So in order to optimize poison damage you need to have 0,4 seconds in mind. I can think of two way to optimize poison damage. First way would be to use slower melee attacks, and the second way is to choose different targets at each attack.

Let's say we hit a monster and the venom kicks in. If you use dragon talon 8/3, your next hit will be either after 8 fpa or 3 fpa. This means that you deal 80% or 30% of the potential poison damage that you could deal in 0,4 seconds which is 10 fpa. On average, you can say that you deal 25% of the venom poison damage with dragon talon with 8/3/3/3/3 kicks. The percentage is higher the less AR you have of course, but losing out on AR will not be beneficial since you will also lose out on kick damage. Hence if you want to have a higher percentage of poison damage, you may want to use a slower attack, like dragon tail, and/or chargeup (fastest is 7 fpa).

One more thing. In order to optimize damage done by poison and OW fully, best thing would be to have poison spread out in 8 seconds (200 frames), have a high percentage chance of OW, and use the "hit and move on tactic".

#### stephan

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Let's say we hit a monster and the venom kicks in. If you use dragon talon 8/3, your next hit will be either after 8 fpa or 3 fpa. This means that you deal 80% or 30% of the potential poison damage that you could deal in 0,4 seconds which is 10 fpa. On average, you can say that you deal 25% of the venom poison damage with dragon talon with 8/3/3/3/3 kicks. The percentage is higher the less AR you have of course, but losing out on AR will not be beneficial since you will also lose out on kick damage. Hence if you want to have a higher percentage of poison damage, you may want to use a slower attack, like dragon tail, and/or chargeup (fastest is 7 fpa).
If you hit a target again before the poison counter has ran out, it will just be reset. You will not do less poison damage with attacking faster. At the very best more hits will require less poison damage to kill the target, but this is not a bad thing.

You never want to optimize a type of damage; you want to kill something as quickly as possible. Since Venom can easily add 1500 or more poison damage per second it's a worthy thing to have if you want to kill fast, regardless of your attack speed.

#### Indecisive

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Stephan,
You are right when it comes to attack vs 1 monster at a time. Stupid me!

However, you must agree with me that Dragon talon will focus on one enemy for about 1 second, and in that time you can hit 3 different monsters with chargeup (starting the poison counter for each of these monsters). That's one way to take advantage of poison damage.

#### Indecisive

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

The thing that I was thinking about was maxing damage for each attack. Poison damage will not change in itself, but the slower you attack, the higher the damage for each attack you will get. See how I reason?

#### Shucandi

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

I don't think I like poison or OW. Poison and OW works best when you hit several targets at the same time and move on to other targets, letting the poison kick in, since neither poison nor open wounds stack. I'm thinking that an amazon would best take advantage of this tactic with multiple arrows (if OW transfers to arrow that is). The drawback with this tactic of course is that more monsters will face you at the same time in comparison to the normal tactic where you attack one monster at a time until its dead and then move on to next monster.

With venom I can't think of a way to deal damage to several monsters at a time. So in order to optimize poison damage you need to have 0,4 seconds in mind. I can think of two way to optimize poison damage. First way would be to use slower melee attacks, and the second way is to choose different targets at each attack.

Let's say we hit a monster and the venom kicks in. If you use dragon talon 8/3, your next hit will be either after 8 fpa or 3 fpa. This means that you deal 80% or 30% of the potential poison damage that you could deal in 0,4 seconds which is 10 fpa. On average, you can say that you deal 25% of the venom poison damage with dragon talon with 8/3/3/3/3 kicks. The percentage is higher the less AR you have of course, but losing out on AR will not be beneficial since you will also lose out on kick damage. Hence if you want to have a higher percentage of poison damage, you may want to use a slower attack, like dragon tail, and/or chargeup (fastest is 7 fpa).

One more thing. In order to optimize damage done by poison and OW fully, best thing would be to have poison spread out in 8 seconds (200 frames), have a high percentage chance of OW, and use the "hit and move on tactic".
this is for pvm, sounds fine

Stephan,
You are right when it comes to attack vs 1 monster at a time. Stupid me!

However, you must agree with me that Dragon talon will focus on one enemy for about 1 second, and in that time you can hit 3 different monsters with chargeup (starting the poison counter for each of these monsters). That's one way to take advantage of poison damage.

ya this sounds more interesting :-D because if it work for 1 monster? then could it also work in pvp on one player? with alot of 451 poison sc's and venom on?

#### improvius

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

ya this sounds more interesting :-D because if it work for 1 monster? then could it also work in pvp on one player? with alot of 451 poison sc's and venom on?
Again, that's an awfully expensive way to get an additional 16 points of damage. You'd probably be better off getting SCs with other elemental damage. At least those would get applied per hit rather than over time.

#### Indecisive

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Exactly, improvius.
If you're going to use poison charms, don't use venom, since it reduces the poison length for all poison.

#### stephan

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

The thing that I was thinking about was maxing damage for each attack.
But this is not a goal in itself. You care about damage over time, not about damage per attack. An attack that does 750 damage in 5 frames is better than an attack that does 1250 damage in 10 frames.

#### Indecisive

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

My point is that I want to compare damage per hit with other elemental damage.

#### stephan

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

My point is that I want to compare damage per hit with other elemental damage.
But hitting slower will not let you do more poison damage. You can only increase you poison damage by hitting multiple targets within the poison duration. The problem is that with Venom this becomes very difficult with it's short duration and the lack of a real multi target attack.

#### aishilee

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

Your 451/11 charm has a rate and a duration. The rate is 41 damage per second, and the duration is 11 seconds. That's how it comes out to 451 damage over 11 seconds. Venom reduces the DURATION of ALL of your poison damage to .4 seconds, but it doesn't affect the rate. So with Venom on, your 451/11 charm will only add 16 damage per hit with Venom's .4 sec rate.

woo. i am 415confused/2 post

Take 415/11sec example
So if you say venom doesent affect rate, so it stays at 415damage
So if you say venom reduces the duartion to 0.4 Seconds.

wouldn't it be like 415/0.4 seconds ? which is like wow-er ? almost instantly deals 415posion damage when u hit an enemy ?

how do you get 16damage per hit with venom on ?

am i missing or misread something ? hmmm sorry just want to know. Coz i have been using a few 100pdsc with Venom on.

#### stephan

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

woo. i am 415confused/2 post

Take 415/11sec example
So if you say venom doesent affect rate, so it stays at 415damage
Rate is not total damage, rate is damage per second. 415* 0.4/11 = 15.1

#### aishilee

##### Diabloii.Net Member
Re: venom / poisons sc's

hmmmm maybe you want to help me with this senario :

A zombie with 0 def and 0 resistances wadsoever. with 1000 life

I used 415posion/11secs only
How much damage will I do on the Zombie over 1 second ? 415/11 = 37.7"

I used Level 20 Venom only
Poison Damage over 0.4 Seconds : 425-445.
How much damage will I do on the Zombie over 1 second ? oh. I can't reach 1 second am i right? so how much exactly am i doing to the zombie with 1 kick with 1 kick as base damage?

I used lvl20 Venom + 415pdSc.
- i need help with this part -
how much damage will i do to the zombie with 1 kick with 1 kick as base damage?

sorry. i am slow