Venom and bartucs question

[sneakytails]

Venom and bartucs question

I like assassins, I have been playing them for a few years but never really finished one fully.

Anyways Is there a reason why my poision damage numbers are showing funky?

what I mean is after I cast venom and then added poison damage charms the numbers barely went up. Do poison damage charms even work with venom? If this is a bug how would I calculate my poison damage? Just add the numbers up from the skill and the charm tallies?

I had 901 to 1400 damage with charms but before casting venom (level 20, 475-495 damage) after casting venom it only went up to 1505 max. Not adding up right?

If charms dont work with venom I may have to rethink my idea to use venom instead of PS.

also could someone help me figure out how much IAS i need for my TS/DT MA build. I am using a Bartucs claw. I have with the claw a level 10 BOS. (45 percent attack speed) plus 40 percent more IAS on gloves and ammy. is this too much?


sorry for the noob questionsrop:

 

[sneakytails]

Ok I looked at the charts some more I think I understand them now.

Lets see if im right.

So with my Bartucs and my level 10 BOS (45% skill based IAS)I would need no gear IAS whatsoever to reach the fastest attack speed. right?

and for my dragon tail my extra 40% gear IAS gets me where I want to be.
for fast kick speed

is this right?

still wondering about my Venom/charm question

sneakytails

 

[oakienko]

Anyways Is there a reason why my poision damage numbers are showing funky?

LCS = lying character screen, if you're a frequent visitor here in the forums you'll know that the character screen lies through its hide (most notably AR and damage)

what I mean is after I cast venom and then added poison damage charms the numbers barely went up. Do poison damage charms even work with venom? If this is a bug how would I calculate my poison damage? Just add the numbers up from the skill and the charm tallies?

I had 901 to 1400 damage with charms but before casting venom (level 20, 475-495 damage) after casting venom it only went up to 1505 max. Not adding up right?

If charms dont work with venom I may have to rethink my idea to use venom instead of PS.

here's how you add up poison damage. Take your lowest duration on your gear and skills (in your case, venom is 0.4 seconds) and take all of your poisons and convert them all to this duration. example, toxic charm 100 psn/5sec = 20 psn/sec = 8 psn/0.4 sec.
You'll notice that when you attack with venom, the poison dissapears after just about 0.4 seconds.

also could someone help me figure out how much IAS i need for my TS/DT MA build. I am using a Bartucs claw. I have with the claw a level 10 BOS. (45 percent attack speed) plus 40 percent more IAS on gloves and ammy. is this too much?

http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

EDIT: there's also an IAS tables chart stickied on this forum!

feel free to ask questions on the forums but don't be surprised if someone says "it's on the Arreat Summit" or such :grin:

 

[sneakytails]

Thanks for the info.

I did check out the charts from the stickie and I got it figured out now. looks like my IAS is in the ballpark for DT.

It looks like poison may not be the way to go after all. Well I guess I better think it over some more. I just had all of these poison charms lying around and though hey why not.

I really like TS and D-Tail and I was looking for a replacment for PS for an elemental compliment.

I really was into the whole cast it every now and then and forget it aspect for elemental damage that venom brings.

sneakytails

 

[Arbedark]

Thanks for the info.

I did check out the charts from the stickie and I got it figured out now. looks like my IAS is in the ballpark for DT.

It looks like poison may not be the way to go after all. Well I guess I better think it over some more. I just had all of these poison charms lying around and though hey why not.

I really like TS and D-Tail and I was looking for a replacment for PS for an elemental compliment.

I really was into the whole cast it every now and then and forget it aspect for elemental damage that venom brings.

sneakytails

Venom itself is good, but using charms with it just doesn't help at all really.

In fact in 99.9% of caces, Poison Charms are just plain inneffective

Anyway, Venom is a good PI killer on a kicker :thumbsup:

 

[SicHalo]

the problem with using psn charms and venom is the speed in that it acts,

venom does dmg over 0.4 secs on the other hand a psn charm does dmg over 9 or so seconds so even a 290 psn sc doing dmg over 9 seconds if venom is casted it bring the duriation of this 290 psn sc to do dmg over 0.4 secs which means ur "elite" 290 psn sc now only does something like 12 psn dmg according to the duriation of venom.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Ok I looked at the charts some more I think I understand them now.

Lets see if im right.

So with my Bartucs and my level 10 BOS (45% skill based IAS)I would need no gear IAS whatsoever to reach the fastest attack speed. right?

and for my dragon tail my extra 40% gear IAS gets me where I want to be.
for fast kick speed

is this right?

still wondering about my Venom/charm question

sneakytails

Yeah, you read the charts correct. A lvl10 BoS is actually way more than you need for TS, and with that lvl10 BoS you need an additional 37 IAS from your gear to reach the last bp for DTail. So the 40 IAS you have now is just right (since getting exactly 37 would probably be impossible).

 

[sneakytails]

Thanks for the thoughts all.

It looks like my poison charms will be donated to my spearazon. Since they will work better there. Plus she will need somthing for PI's as well.

I think I still will use Venom on my rebuild though.

well the good news is that my backpack just got a whole lot more room for others things that im missing. Like FHR,life,Resist all sc's and skillers.

I will also be eliting my gore riders as soon as I find the runes for it.

whats a good socket for a kicker. (I have a socket in my bartucs and Nat helm available)

PS. does eliting the bartucs make sense with my TS/DT build. shouldnt that extra damage be added/calculated into my kick damage?

sneakytails

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Upping the Bartuc's isn't really a good idea. The added damage is not added into your kick damage (it's based solely off your boot damage). The only thing upping them would do would be to add a little more damage to your attacks while you're charging-up and increase the reqs. If you have the runes just lying around, and you already have the reqs covered, upping them won't hurt. But it's really not necessary.

 

[HCKull]

Bartucs give huge strength and dext bonuses. Two will give 40 str and 40 dext. You will game 80 points in vitality which is 240 additional life.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

so whats the difference between this 1.1* fixed poison bug, and that 1.09 poison stacking bug?

it sounds like all the poison charms you have retains the damage done, but shortens the duration done...
therefore making venom using sins more powerful... as the duration is much shorter, but the damage is just as high... and with fast swinging dual claws, it increases the potential damage of 0.4 poison damage even more

 

[PrkChopXpress]

The way psn dmg charms work with Venom is that the charms dmg/sec is unchanged, they just last 0.4 seconds instead of their listed duration. So a Pestilent small charm of Anthrax has a listed dmg of 225 psn dmg over 6 seconds (the highest possible total). That's 37.5 psn dmg / sec, and since 0.4 is 40% of a second, that gets cut down to only 15 psn dmg / 0.4 sec (if my maths is right). So while psn dmg charms to add to your Venom damage, when you're already doing 400-500 psn dmg, another 15 it's not really worth it.

 

[PrkChopXpress]

Actually, I think I may have added up the original dmg and duration wrong, but I think all the math is correct. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when there are two sources of poison on a single charm, the dps is averaged and the duration is added. So a Pestilent small charm of Anthrax would have 225 psn dmg / 12 seconds (not per 6 seconds like I had originally said). So that's 18.75 psn dmg / sec, and 40% of that would be only 7.5 psn dmg / 0.4 sec. So it's even less helpful than I had originally said.

 

[muzzz]

I'm too lazy to check the actual numbers in PrkChop's post, but the reasoning is correct. You can load up your entire inventory with the most 1337 poison charms, and it wouldn't help venom in the least. I have no idea what it was like in 1.09, but that's the way the cookie crumbles in 1.11.

Another unfortunate thing about Venom as an anti-PI skill is the fact that most PI's are undead, which also tend to have a fairly high poison resistance. It'll work, but you'll need a bit of patience. And an immunity breaker, even a lowly CtC amp claw on switch, will be just as good. If not better.

Only up the Bartuc's if you're absolutely sure those requirements are already covered. Otherwise you'll lose 200+ potential HP, which is in no way worth the extra scratch you'll inflict while charging TS.

 

[sneakytails]

And an immunity breaker, even a lowly CtC amp claw on switch, will be just as good. If not better.

Whats a CTC amp claw.?

So beside phoenix strike which I dont really want to use. What would be a good compliment to Venom for PI's

I was thinking blades of ice. I really like the frozen duration. Does this work with venom?

Im sure there are other options too like the lightning or fire charge ups.

any thoughts?

and by the way. My build is a claw sheild. :evil:
(I just dont have the resistance gear, even smoke armor isnt enough without my sheild)

 

[PrkChopXpress]

"ctc amp" = "of Amplify Damage" procing suffix

 

[muzzz]

Whats a CTC amp claw.?

What PrkChop said. CtC usually stands for Chance to Cast, and amp is short for Amplify Damage.

So beside phoenix strike which I dont really want to use. What would be a good compliment to Venom for PI's

I was thinking blades of ice. I really like the frozen duration. Does this work with venom?

Im sure there are other options too like the lightning or fire charge ups.

any thoughts?

If you're going for elemental charges you'll want to invest in phoenix for the synergies anyway. The problem with the cold charges is that they do the least damage, and 'sins already have enough crowd control with CoS and MB to do without the freezing. Fire charges don't really work well together with DTail, because they convert physical damage to fire damage. So normally out of the three I'd recommend the lightning charges. But I've had some discusion about the fire charges, and perhaps they're not as useless as I first thought.

and by the way. My build is a claw sheild. :evil:
(I just dont have the resistance gear, even smoke armor isnt enough without my sheild)

Try to get rid of that shield. Unless your headgear and jewelry is godly, you're better of getting your resists there. Gamble a bit if you have to. Then equip another Bartuc's, or something with similar +skills, and watch in awe as your damage goes through the roof.

 

[sneakytails]

Well I cant argue with you about the second claw adding damage.


Here's My setup:

Bartucs Greater Talon (1)
Crafted Blood Gloves (20% IAS, 6% CB, 3% LSPH, life boost, Decent Poison Resist, 1/4 less poison length)
Crafted Blood Ring (LSPH, Hefty life boost, Strength and MF boost)
Raven Frost (Cannot Be Frozen, DEX, Attack Rating)
Thundergods Vigor (Strength and Vit, Light Absorb)
Gore Rider (CB, Kick Damage, FRW. Soon to be upgraded!)
Lionheart Boneweave (My best Armor, has everything even + 30 Resist all)
Nats Totem Helm (Strength, Dex, Resist)
Cats Eye (IAS, Dex, FRW)
Mosers Blessed Circle Luna(+63 to all resistances courtesy of 2 p- diamonds, this sheild has been upped)

This is my best gear to date and it gives me my IAS breakpoint for DT, and almost full resistances combined with my small amount of resist all charms. Also max blocking thanks to the dex items.

She does great kick damage 17k even without upped gore riders (should happen soon).

If anything she needs more life due to my points in strength and somewhate due to dex.

If I loose the sheild I get more life and strength and skills which will really increase damage.

But I cant make up the resistance drop and weapon block has never worked for me. I get hit far too often.

When I rebuild this char I will be thinking about Venom and possibly Claws of Thunder for PI's.


I guess If I find godly gear (UnLikely) or a millon or so resist all charms I could go dual claw. But I disgress...

 

[muzzz]

Well I cant argue with you about the second claw adding damage.


Here's My setup:

Bartucs Greater Talon (1)
Crafted Blood Gloves (20% IAS, 6% CB, 3% LSPH, life boost, Decent Poison Resist, 1/4 less poison length)
Crafted Blood Ring (LSPH, Hefty life boost, Strength and MF boost)
Raven Frost (Cannot Be Frozen, DEX, Attack Rating)
Thundergods Vigor (Strength and Vit, Light Absorb)
Gore Rider (CB, Kick Damage, FRW. Soon to be upgraded!)
Lionheart Boneweave (My best Armor, has everything even + 30 Resist all)
Nats Totem Helm (Strength, Dex, Resist)
Cats Eye (IAS, Dex, FRW)
Mosers Blessed Circle Luna(+63 to all resistances courtesy of 2 p- diamonds, this sheild has been upped)

I personally would swap the Lionheart for Treachery. Even more resists, 15%pdr, IAS, +2 skills, and more. Then I'd ditch the crafted blood items. Gauntlets can provide even more +skills, and a magic (yes, magic) ring can fill up a nice res gap. That should put you about 2/3 of the way to getting rid of the shield. The rest can be made up by swapping the helm or the belt for something with better resists.

EDIT: the reasoning behind ditching the blood items is that you have absolutely no use for life or mana leech. A single point in cobra strike turns your DTail into a full-rejuvie.

EDIT EDIT: this might deserve some extra stressing: magic items can spawn with better mods than rare items. When my DTailer became a matriarch she was still wearing a magic circlet, ring and gauntlets, as well as a rare resists belt. Don't get too hooked on those uniques...

This is my best gear to date and it gives me my IAS breakpoint for DT, and almost full resistances combined with my small amount of resist all charms. Also max blocking thanks to the dex items.

She does great kick damage 17k even without upped gore riders (should happen soon).

If anything she needs more life due to my points in strength and somewhate due to dex.

If I loose the sheild I get more life and strength and skills which will really increase damage.

But I cant make up the resistance drop and weapon block has never worked for me. I get hit far too often.

Do you move past monsters a lot? Because claw block doesn't work if you do. When I play my DTailer I always pick on packs from the edges. I get hit just enough to keep the CtC fade from Treachery up, and that's about it.

 

[oakienko]

If you're going for elemental charges you'll want to invest in phoenix for the synergies anyway. The problem with the cold charges is that they do the least damage, and 'sins already have enough crowd control with CoS and MB to do without the freezing. Fire charges don't really work well together with DTail, because they convert physical damage to fire damage. So normally out of the three I'd recommend the lightning charges. But I've had some discusion about the fire charges, and perhaps they're not as useless as I first thought.

pretty much spot on. ---random fact incoming---
The only area where blades of ice and chaos ice comes real handy is minion's of destruction (last wave before baal). MoDs don't go blind when you hit them with CoS. MB stuns them very well still because they're still just minions but they're so fat you can hit 1 or 2 at a time :laugh:
Freeze still works on them, which is why I use my unsynergized pheonix charge 3 against them and not my synergized charge 1 or 2.

The thing with meteor is that it's first charge. Being so (and knowing your attack's fps) you can charge-finish in less than a second (best to my knowledge is 16fps) The only kicker (pun intended) is that dtalon and dtail both have KB, which you should compensate by KBing to your merc/shadow.